NEW ATF DIRECTIVE considered on SS109 - 5.56 ammo

[WilsonFlyer]

I concur. At the end of the day, it ain't gonna happen. Too much precedent if it does. It would be a political war sent to a republican controlled congress. The WH would see the backlash from that coming from a mile away. Yes. Even this WH.

Some battles ain't worth fighting.

On the other hand, if we lose this one, there is no telling where it goes from here unless it is stopped in its tracks in congress.

 

[Florida J Frame]

Possession is legal, by statute. You won't be able to buy the ammo or bullets in the future.
Plain language reading of the statutes made this proposed ruling inevitable, IMO, notice this stuff stayed legal by regulatory exemption. Suggest writing congressman to amend the laws.

Shocker, Do you happen to know that statute. Might be a good one to print out.

 

[vipermd]

COMMENT on what?? They have decided it is gone!! NOTE: Page 15 from "white paper on atf website"



ATF recognizes that this ammunition is widely available to the public. Because it is legally permissible to possess armor piercing ammunition under current law,with drawing the exemption will not place individuals in criminal possession of armor piercing ammunition.
However, with few exceptions, manufacturers will be unable to produce
such armor piercing ammunition, importers will be unable to import such ammunition, and manufacturers andimporters will be prohibited from selling or distributing the ammunition.8
******ATF is specifically soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety*******
WE have nothing to say about it the decision has been made, the question is do you want the band aid ripped off fast or slow. atf is NOT asking for your input on whether it should stay or go!!!! Be Safe,

 

[shocker]

Shocker, Do you happen to know that statute. Might be a good one to print out.

Upon further review, the LEOPA doesn't seem to apply to M855 because it has a 2 piece core, one of which is not a banned material.
Anyway, I wrote my congressman. He is in the majority and is supposed to be strong on 2A rights.

 

[Dezfan]

While I agree with you, how long before they go after the other ammo options as not having a "sporting purpose"?

I also saw that a ban on magazines with a capacity higher than 10 has been introduced in Congress again.

I don't remember anything about "sporting purposes" mentioned in the 2nd Amendment.

"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

Seems pretty *******g clear to me!

 

[Triathloncoach]

I will send a quick note reminding my elective officials that they should cut back on this sort of nonsense and do some productive work. But, and the caveat being I don't know much about this ammo, although I'm certain I have some in my pile of 223, I wonder why we need to have armor piercing ammo? It wouldn't make me happy if I were a cop wearing a vest.

This reminds me of the Black Talon Baloney back in the early 90s. Although my roommate at the time was a surgical resident in Manhattan, and the thought of cutting his gloved hand on a bullet fragment while working on a possible aids/hepatitis p*ssed him off. True story.

 

[Triathloncoach]

With my above drivel said, are there any/many? instances were this green tip ammo was successfully used on a vest wearing member of LE?

 

[Rick_A]

But, and the caveat being I don't know much about this ammo, although I'm certain I have some in my pile of 223, I wonder why we need to have armor piercing ammo? It wouldn't make me happy if I were a cop wearing a vest.

Unfortunately you are the type of fellow they hope to reach.

It is not remotely armor piercing. It has a small mild steel tip which allows it to penetrate a tin can helmet at 600 yards, a specification set to usurp M193. The idea was enhanced range for M249 SAW light machine guns and the then new and improved M16A2 service rifle. It's optimal in a 20" barrel and has been criticized for poor or inconsistent performance since the 14.5" barreled M4 started becoming a general issue carbine.

At close ranges it relies on fragmentation for effectiveness and relies on velocity to do so. Low velocities from short barrels completely neuters the round so the entire premise of this ban is false. It is carefully worded to have the appearance of a logical argument but the ATFs entire premise is a fallacy.

I've been shooting the stuff for twenty years and it is nothing special. My rifle shoots it well so I'm usually pretty well stocked. There are both more accurate and more effective ammunition choices available.

MOST ANY rifle ammo pierces a ballistic vest, even from a short barrel. In short the BATFE is full of it.

It was inexpensive and plentiful and like all things banned call it something nasty like ARMOR PIERCING and say it'll SAVE COPS and they expect folks to let it happen.

 

[okstatefan]

IF the BATFE does classify this as "armor piercing", will that prevent it from being able to be used as a military NATO round? As of now, it is classified as "ball" ammunition.

 

[vipermd]

I will send a quick note reminding my elective officials that they should cut back on this sort of nonsense and do some productive work. But, and the caveat being I don't know much about this ammo, although I'm certain I have some in my pile of 223, I wonder why we need to have armor piercing ammo? It wouldn't make me happy if I were a cop wearing a vest. This reminds me of the Black Talon Baloney back in the early 90s. Although my roommate at the time was a surgical resident in Manhattan, and the thought of cutting his gloved hand on a bullet fragment while working on a possible aids/hepatitis p*ssed him off. True story.

I think you need to do some research- Facts: A standard 223 "hunting" round will go through a Level 2 vest, the "armor" piercing ammo can not go "further" through the vest. Second it is often more available, accurate. Third "need" armor piercing ammo?? for the same reason you "need" an AR! As for Black Talon cutting glove- I did not know any Physicians who could possibly care about Black Talon specifically, because when you put a high-medium velocity projectile into some ones chest, you get sharp broken bones, fragments of the bullet. I was a Resident @ Hackensack Medical Center in 1990, used to see the Towers each morning, ANY bullet or sharp bone can cut a glove, the only people who cared were the liberal media, anti -gunners and the uninformed masses who were fed this swill. Please check your facts, and not repeat falsehoods. No offense is meant, but if "WE" pro gunners propagate mistakes/lies how can we be trusted. Be Safe,

 

[sgtsandman]

The thing is, if this ban does manage to go through, since most high powered rifle ammunition can pierce through the standard IIIa vest, it won't be long before they come for the rest. Shut the door before it gets opened.

 

[g27racing]

Somebody said it above already. It is going to be banned unless the BATFE changes their mind. Basically they have said its banned although we are giving "you" until that date in March to state opinions etc.

This ammo was classified almost 30 years ago as armor piercing (even though this round doesn't meet the criteria to be defined as armor piercing) but was give an exemption to the ban imposed in 1986. The BATFE is now reversing the exemption....

Some of my dates might be a bit off but that is the general idea.

To the guys writing to their Washington reps, that is where it can start as well as writing to the BATFE but ultimately the BATFE is using existing rules/laws etc. This isn't a new ban. The banning of armor piercing pistol ammo has been around for almost 30 years. They are just removing the exemption that was give to this particular ammo.

 

[Culina]

The irony is that M855 is not armor piercing and will not do anything to soft body armor that other conventional rounds will not do. If I remember correctly, the metal tip above the lead core was added to help it penetrate Soviet helmets. That is what I heard. At any rate, I can personally confirm that it does nothing to A550 plate besides throw a few sparks and leaves maybe a scratch, if you could call it that.

 

[sgtsandman]

All one can do it try to work through the system. Maybe enough flak will go up on all sides to make them reconsider.

 

[shocker]

The law is 99-408, signed by President Ronald Reagan.
It's just 3 pages and the relevant paragraph is near the beginning.

The good news is that cast lead isnt covered. The bad news is anything containing brass or bronze, i.e., bullet jackets, could be banned if not classified as sporting purpose.

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

I use it STRICTLY for sporting, target shooting. Will they ban Gasoline? maybe they are thinking about the 5.7?

 

[Nedroe]

It Doesn't Matter......

who you call, write, email, or yell at from the sidewalk, they are definitely gonna do it. The only reason they say they are asking for input is so they can say they did it as they are required to. Your legislator's are not gonna care. They will tell you there are plenty of other types of ammo you can buy.

This is just another small piece of their bigger plan to enslave us all. WAKE UP GUYS, IT'S JUST AROUND THE CORNER

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.


Ned

 

[vipermd]

In 1968 they tried to make the NRA look like "cop haters" because they wanted "armor piercing" ammo. The ammo at that time was standard hunting ammo- no metal tip, no steel core, they tried to ban it all. Fast forward to 2014-2015---> the sig brace is legal because you can not change it's design by incorrect use-----> Then, Sig brace is still legal but you can change it's design by how you use it?????, As stated above, the ban is in effect, it is only the exemption being removed. As for LEO safety, it is just a buzz word, LE body armor is designed to protect against the officers OWN weapon, otherwise every LEO would have to wear level IIIA, plus raid vest with plates. I just weighed my vest and plates ( 18.9 pounds) and that will protect 3006 AP. I am not aware of any LEO shot with AR/AK pistol through a vest, I would like to know of any documented cases. I agree that this is part of a never ending move towards total firearms ban. Sporting use? How soon do you think it will be till "sporting use" is re-evaluated?? If the Sig brace travesty is not challenged and won, it will be open season to make 180 degree reversals uncontested, and incite more unrest. Be Safe,

 

[Rick_A]

As stated above, the ban is in effect, it is only the exemption being removed

That is somewhat correct.

In the mid 80's all types of armor piercing pistol ammo were banned for "officer safety." ALL types of common rifle calibers were exempted even those used in pistols. What's stopping them from removing the "exemption" on other types of ammo or calibers from here?

 

[sgtsandman]

Most pistols that could fire this round, at least comfortably for the shooter, and other rifle rounds are too big for typical pistol carry. Though, I haven't seen one in person, a 5.56 firearm that is registered as a pistol is still fairly large when you factor in the buffer tube, even if the barrel itself is seven inches. You're still looking at a pistol that is as long or longer than your typical one-shot rifle caliber pistol. This is just an excuse, and a poor one, being used as justification by the ATF.