New Model 3 - Ship dates by SN index

[model3sw]

Was this because the Japanese Armorers mixed things up?

Yes, that is the accepted and logical reason for the parts mix up. After many were re-imported after WWII, they came back in shipping crates to a dealer or dealers / wholesalers ... I think ... in California or another Northwestern state.

Ed Cornett knows much more about this. I hope he jumps in here for a comment.

These were commercially sold within the US (by the importer or importers after WWII) with the later batches being complete mix ups which are "presumed" to be because at the near end of the batch the dealer or wholesaler just put together parts to complete the units.

I actually have one that is 1/2 of one Japanese Contract & 1/2 of another SN Japanese contract with a non-pro refinish but nice and tight. This makes for a good shooter but comes up short on the collectors' value.

Although many have matching numbers, just about as many have a different SN cylinder while fewer are complete "mix and match put-togethers".

Some reported to be GI bring-backs from WWII and from Korean War. I understand the WWII bring backs (of Axis power gun types and makes) from all theaters of operation, however, I don't fully comprehend how some of these Japanese Contract S&W NM3s could be brought back from Korea in the 1950s. Someone with facts please jump in to help clarify. >>> Ed, where are you ??

 

[model3sw]

More revisions and updates today. Please keep sending data, much appreciated, Sal Raimondi

 

[model3sw]

Looking for more Model 3 SNs and ship dates to add. Thank you. Sal Raimondi

 

[smokymd]

Hello Sal, This is for two that I have handy.
NM 3 Target, .44 R - 6.5 in. - #37512 - NRH, Walnut Stks, Blue, 95 %.
NM 3 Target, 450 - 7.5 in. - #33839 - NRH, Walnut Stks. Blue, 85 %.
I very rarely worried about letters, to busy working and looking for more S&Ws when time allowed, but I will try and send you more info on others I still have or have sold, Thanks for your efforts, JC.

 

[model3sw]

Hello Sal, This is for two that I have handy.
NM 3 Target, .44 R - 6.5 in. - #37512 - NRH, Walnut Stks, Blue, 95 %.
NM 3 Target, 450 - 7.5 in. - #33839 - NRH, Walnut Stks. Blue, 85 %.
I very rarely worried about letters, to busy working and looking for more S&Ws when time allowed, but I will try and send you more info on others I still have or have sold, Thanks for your efforts, JC.

JC, see if you can slip in a few ship date requests to Roy. Your allowed one per week. That .450 has British proofs, I presume ? It should be stamped with Caliber on side of barrel.

the higher SN 37512 should come out to a late ship sometime in the 1900s to 1910, I'd think. All numbers match on both ? This means, butt, face of cylinder, latch and rear of barrel in the recessed area visible with latch lifted. Should also have the caliber roll stamp on side of barrel.

Thanks for participating ... best regards, Sal Raimondi, Sr.

 

[model3sw]

Gotta keep you busy Sal,
Attached are four factory letters for a few that I have. 2 are 44WCF frontiers, One is a target 44 Russian and the last is an early New model 3 44 Russian.

I also have two other targets and a refinished gun that has a lanyard ring:

38/44, serial number 3658, 1 9/16" cylinder, Nickel, Hard rubber, 6 1/2" barrel.....No factory letter.

32/44, serial number 943, 6 1/2" barrel, Nickel, Hard rubber. No factory letter.

I also have a 44 Russian, 6" barrel, checkered wood grips with a lanyard ring, nickel finish (old refinish). Serial # 7860. No factory letter.

Let me know if you need anymore info.

Murph

Hi, Murph. I need a little more data on each

1. Parts ... all numbered / matching, include (most important) barrel number in recess area at rear visible with the rear latch held open to the highest it goes.
2. Approximate condition on each. On our honor here. Judge, realistically, the approximate condition and if refinished / factory or non-factory specified. e.g. 70% condition or 70% condition as (either factory, non factory but professional, or non-professional ) refinished, etc.
3. Anything out of the ordinary ? e.g special sights, grips (stocks), Checkering on the front / rear straps and / or trigger etc. Special sights e.g. Lyman white line, or other brand gold bead, ivory bead, etc.
If sights are factory ... either Factory standard sights or Factory Target sights. light description here.
4. Rebounding or Non-rebounding hammer ?
5. Caliber roll stamp on side or barrel or none ?
6. mechanical conditions, functions, etc ? Nice and tight when closed or a bit loose, etc.
7. Ship date and to whom (you've supplied those).
8. Markings, if any, on the exterior areas and under the left (and right) grip frame. (the flat area under of the gun with grips (stocks) removed.

I appreciate your time and input. At very least I'd like to leave my research for future collectors / members as part of my epitaph.

Unfortunately, I cannot "donate" any of my collection to a museum, well perhaps loan a few very odd and truly scarce variations.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Oyeboteb]

Please refresh my memory on how one may have Roy look up a Ship Date here in the forum? Vis a vie, sending off for a Letter?

I have four NM3s, but I have not requested any Letters yet for them.

I'd gladly add them to your List with or without ship dates, but I think you do want ship dates when possible.

 

[BMur]

Frame markings

Sal,
You’ll have to give me more time for the disassembly frame markings. I’ll give you those when I get a chance to inspect them individually.

Murph

 

[model3sw]

Please refresh my memory on how one may have Roy look up a Ship Date here in the forum? Vis a vie, sending off for a Letter?

I have four NM3s, but I have not requested any Letters yet for them.

I'd gladly add them to your List with or without ship dates, but I think you do want ship dates when possible.

Yes, Ship date is one of the key reference points we are keeping track of.
to access the ship date request from Roy Jinks you have to be a member of the S&WCA that you could access the members only section.

You probably wont' be able to get this unless your a member but it is here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/swca-ship-date-request

Short of the ship date request, you should get a S&W letter on the guns to confirm what they are (as they left the factory) to whom shipped and when. Some could be rather interesting.

Form for letter request available for download here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17

Hope this helps. I'm very curious as to what you have. Please send me an email to [email protected] with descriptions of each one. Follow the format of questions requested:

lease supply data as follows:

Serial Number:
Serial numbers match on all parts ? (butt, face of cylinder, clasp, and barrel number located in the recessed area of the rear upper frame visible with the latch lifted all the way up. You may need a Q-tip to clean the recess.
Target sights(and if so what type) or standard service sights;
Rebounding or Non-Rebounding hammer
Caliber (.44 S&W Russian, .45 S&W Schofield, 450 & 455 British)
Barrel Length: (if barrel has been cut please indicate)
Finish
Approximate current condition (state % if original or refinished etc.)
Ship Date (state whether from letter or ship date request) and
Shipped to where (if lettered)

If it has any special attributes, please define those attributes.
If cut for an extension stock, please state whether factory cut for stock or if cut for aftermarket stock.

Please EMAIL me the details. This way if you don't want to post your serial number linked to you on forum, I will just do the entire SN with no name to keep a personal research record to share with whomever helps or post it, with your permission but with no names.

If we all supply this data we may learn something new and all share in the research.
__________________

 

[Oyeboteb]

Yes, Ship date is one of the key reference points we are keeping track of.
to access the ship date request from Roy Jinks you have to be a member of the S&WCA that you could access the members only section.

You probably wont' be able to get this unless your a member but it is here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/swca-ship-date-request

Short of the ship date request, you should get a S&W letter on the guns to confirm what they are (as they left the factory) to whom shipped and when. Some could be rather interesting.

Form for letter request available for download here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17

Hope this helps. I'm very curious as to what you have. Please send me an email to [email protected] with descriptions of each one. Follow the format of questions requested:

lease supply data as follows:

Serial Number:
Serial numbers match on all parts ? (butt, face of cylinder, clasp, and barrel number located in the recessed area of the rear upper frame visible with the latch lifted all the way up. You may need a Q-tip to clean the recess.
Target sights(and if so what type) or standard service sights;
Rebounding or Non-Rebounding hammer
Caliber (.44 S&W Russian, .45 S&W Schofield, 450 & 455 British)
Barrel Length: (if barrel has been cut please indicate)
Finish
Approximate current condition (state % if original or refinished etc.)
Ship Date (state whether from letter or ship date request) and
Shipped to where (if lettered)

If it has any special attributes, please define those attributes.
If cut for an extension stock, please state whether factory cut for stock or if cut for aftermarket stock.

Please EMAIL me the details. This way if you don't want to post your serial number linked to you on forum, I will just do the entire SN with no name to keep a personal research record to share with whomever helps or post it, with your permission but with no names.

If we all supply this data we may learn something new and all share in the research.
__________________

I am a member in good standing, but for some reason the SWCA portion gives me an access denied notice.

Who can I contact to resolve this?

Edited to say - I got it figured out, contacted the right person, sent them my info, so I ought to have access sometime while we're young, and I'll submit the info for my relevant NM3s and when they shipped, soon as I have that.

 

[Frontier44]

Hello, I have a New Model #3 that might further your research. I do not have a letter for it therefore I don’t know the ship date however I do intend on getting one.

Serial #8594 all numbers matching including serial number on inside of grip panel.
Caliber - 44R
Finish - blue 90%
Barrel - 6 1/2” - No caliber designation on left side of barrel. Standard barrel address and patent dates on barrel rib.
Sights - Standard
Grips - checkered walnut.

I was guessing a ship date between 1878 to 1881 but I see some revolvers having a 4 digit number close to mine that have ship dates later in 1890’s. I hope this helps you out with your data. If there’s any information I may have missed, just let me know.

Regards, Gary

 

[mmaher94087]

Gary, I regret to tell you that model3sw has passed away. I do not know if anyone is maintaining Sal's database. Maybe another will chime in and enlighten us. Mike