New springs in my 4516 causing problems

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Inkedpreacher

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Took my 4516 to a gunsmith and he installed a wolf complete spring kit. Including new mag springs. Took her out today and have issues. Failure to return to battery and at times it seems like after the slide closes fully it's actually bouncing back.

I was using cheap ammo tulammo and WWB, but never had issues with either before. Is there a break in period with new springs? Or do I need to be looking deeper? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 
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I need to subscribe and see what the responses are since I have a 4516 as well.
 
I strongly suspect the problem lies with your recoil spring. I need to know what version of 4516 you have there in order to be more specific. Is it the early 4516 no dash or a 4516-1 -2 or -3

Even better...can you post a picture of the guiderod & spring that's in there now?

Cheers
Bill
 
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BMCM said:
I strongly suspect the problem lies with your recoil spring. I need to know what version of 4516 you have there in order to be more specific. Is it the early 4516 no dash or a 4516-1 -2 or -3

Even better...can you post a picture of the guiderod & spring that's in there now?

Cheers
Bill
Click to expand...

Bill, I can do both. It's a 4516-1, pic coming momentarily.
 
Bill, it's a 4516-1, here's a photo of the guide rod and new recoil spring. When I first got this gun I put 400 rounds through it with no issues. Not knowing how many thousands of rounds it's fired I figured a new set of springs was a good investment. Kind of regretting that now.....

 
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Ok that looks correct. I just wanted be sure the spring was the correct size/diameter for your guiderod although it looks to be a coil short. For the 4516-1, the factory S&W spring was a 20 coil spring rated at 16#. You will find however some 4516-1s with a reducing bushing in the slide and fitted with the nested spring set found in the 4516-2. For the guns with the single spring like yours, and mine for that matter, we are relegated to the aftermarket for replacement springs since S&W doesn't make the 4516-1 spring any more. IMO the dash1 guns, were a bit undersprung from the get go anyway.

Any idea what weight that spring you have is rated at? Factory is as I said 16lb. From what you described originally I think your new spring is too light. I'd suggest getting a recoil calibration pack from Wolff and try out the heavier weight ratings and see what your gun prefers for the loads you're shooting.

In the meantime since the gun obviously doesn't run right with the new spring, I'd stick the old one back in there for now.

Alternately there are two other options for a long term fix recoil spring.

Option one... You can have a reducing bushing machined and installed in the slide then fit a 4516-2 recoil assembly which consists of a thin guiderod and two counterwound springs nested one inside the other.

Here's that bushing
IMG_6991.jpg


And option two... A reduced diameter guiderod coupled with a ISMI flatwire spring. For this you need a solid stainless one piece guiderod either turned down and shortened from another part or machined from scratch.

For the record, I went with option two on mine.
IMG_6759.jpg

Hopefully I've been of some help.

Cheers
Bill
 
Bill, thank you for all of the info. I will order a calibration pack from wolf and go from there. Not sure what the rating is on the current spring. I ordered the wolf complete replacement kit for the 4516, this is the recoil spring that came in the kit.
 
OP I notice you are not the first 4516-1 owner to have function issues with their 4516-1 after installing a new Wolfe recoil spring.

IIRC the Wolfe spring is too short to insure reliable function with full power SD rounds.

I would either track down a new OEM factory 4516-1 spring (no small chore in itself) or follow BMCMs exce;;ent advice and upgrade to the skinny guide rod and either flatwire spring or factory OEM dual recoil springs.

Good luck! Regards 18DAI
 
Looked into this more, I ordered the kit specific to the 4516-1 from Wolff, not sure exactly the weight of the spring they send. I've emailed Wolff about that. Also, I no longer have the old spring, it was tossed at the gunsmith shop. I thought I'd kept it, but I didn't, lesson learned there.

So right now I'm waiting to hear from Wolff and will go from there. I made sure to let them know that my problem is not an isolated incident. Will see what they say. I appreciate the help and advice everyone has given. Thank you all. :)

Bobby
 
Finally was able to talk to a smith at Wolff springs today. His opinion is the same as Bill said. Recoil spring is too light. He said a 15# spring must have been sent with my pack. He is sending me a new 16# and a 17# spring free of charge, and I just got shipping confirmation. Hopefully, this will be the end of the problems. :)
 
Heavier recoil seems to help a little, but the problem is not fixed. Anyone wanna buy a 4516?...... Tired of messing with it.
 
Eh, don't give up yet. Those are terrific little 45's. Some examples may need a little tinkering but once you get 'em running right they're unstoppable.

What spring did you try and how did the gun behave? Feed problems? Ejection? I'd like to help.

Cheers
Bill
 
BMCM said:
What spring did you try and how did the gun behave? Feed problems? Ejection? I'd like to help.

Bill
Click to expand...

Added a 17# recoil spring. It slightly helped, but still getting failure to return to battery occasionally. Also, still feels like the slide is slapping closed and bouncing. I'm just frustrated. Now I'm carrying my basically museum quality model 59 because I can't trust my 4516. I really do appreciate your help.
Thanks,
Bobby
 
The #17 is just not enough spring, still too weak. Using Wolff springs I'd start with the #19 at the bare minimum and work up from there likely winding up with the #21 or #23 in the end depending on how the particular weapon behaves.

In my opinion the 4516-1 guns were undersprung from the get go. S&W was aware of this as well as evidenced by the warranty fix many folks had done on their dash1 guns exhibiting the same behavior as yours. Those dash1's returned under warranty were upgraded with the dash2 recoil assembly and by all accounts ran fine from then on.

I'm quite certain S&W is not doing that upgrade anymore. For one thing the little reducing bushing required to install the upgraded spring set & guiderod is no longer made and in fact never was cataloged with a part number. (I asked S&W about it quite some time ago).

You can further explore trying Wolff's extra power springs or.... If you like, go buy one of these guiderods:
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-spring-guides/recoil-spring-guide-assembly-chp-sku940000813-14977-34478.aspx
Send it to me and I'll resize it to fit your gun and accomodate an ISMI flatwire spring. I honestly think that's your best bet to get that gun running right.

I'll point you to this thread for some background where I documented converting my 4516-1 to flatwire a couple years ago range report included. Note that were no mods to the gun itself. Merely requires making up a new guiderod for this to work.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/313475-4516-1-update-ismi-flatwire-recoil-spring-upgrade.html
For the record, 3 of my guns see time as my primary CCW all three run flatwire springs and all three are solid bet your life reliable.

Cheers
Bill
 
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The Sprinco set is for the no dash, dash 2 and LE special order 4516-3. The OPs 4516-1 can't use the dual spring set without the skinny guide rod and bushing installed in his slide. Regards 18DAI
 
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