New to me 4553TSW and a slight problem

[SW CQB 45]

dang....

let us know what the culprit was.

I have a friend who once had a 4506.

we went shooting one day and I noticed he would thumb the hammer down to shoot the first round in the mag.

I asked what he was doing....as the gun could be fired DA first shot.

he pulled the trigger and then stopped saying it would not go any further.

I grabbed the gun and shot a round off DA.

He pulled the trigger a second time (DA) and the hammer stop and then dropped but the gun did not fire.

I took the gun from him, DA pull and "BANG"

he was not completing the trigger pull and then stopped short and probably let off which caused the hammer to fall but got caught by the firing pin safety since he let go of the trigger at the right time.

not questioning any of your abilities but
if everything checks out with the gun....make sure you are completing the trigger pull.

let us know what you find out

 

[andyo5]

It seems possible that the slide may not be fully in battery the times that it will not fire on the first round. In that case, the firing pin would be locked.

 

[SW CQB 45]

does your gun dry fire with strong hammer fall?

slide all the way to the rear and then let it go...no riding the slide.

 

[CL21376]

dang....

let us know what the culprit was.

I have a friend who once had a 4506.

we went shooting one day and I noticed he would thumb the hammer down to shoot the first round in the mag.

I asked what he was doing....as the gun could be fired DA first shot.

he pulled the trigger and then stopped saying it would not go any further.

I grabbed the gun and shot a round off DA.

He pulled the trigger a second time (DA) and the hammer stop and then dropped but the gun did not fire.

I took the gun from him, DA pull and "BANG"

he was not completing the trigger pull and then stopped short and probably let off which caused the hammer to fall but got caught by the firing pin safety since he let go of the trigger at the right time.

not questioning any of your abilities but
if everything checks out with the gun....make sure you are completing the trigger pull.

let us know what you find out

Could it possibly be my one and only mag is bad?

Being a new to me gun, I tested it the following way:

Slide locked back, mag with 1 bullet inserted, drop slide with slide release, BANG, slide locks back.

Repeat the above with two bullets. BANG x 2

Slide locked back, insert full mag, drop slide with slide release, eject mag and top off and reinsert, no bang.

The one constant is I needed to manipulate the magazine in some way for each fully loaded mag in order to get it to fire the first shot. That manipulation was remove and insert gently...remove and insert firmly....smack the bottom of the inserted mag with my hand....

Weird huh? I've never experienced a pistol that only malfunctioned on one particular shot #.

I filled out S&W's online return form, hopefully they can help me out

edit: one additional detail....i did notice on several occasions that when i dropped the magazine out with the chamber loaded, the top bullet wasn't fully seated in the magazine. it was partially stripped (for lack of a better term) out of the magazine.

 

[blujax01]

You need a second mag, right? Go ahead and get one. If the gun works okay with it, well you still need a second mag ...

 

[SW CQB 45]

CL,

sw mags are notorius for pushing the top round in the mag slightly forward with slide friction.

updated mags with feed lip indetention minimize this.

when the gun does not go "BANG"....

does the trigger pull feel any different to when it does go BANG?

when you test again, when it does not go BANG...confirm in battery.

inspect misfires for any primer contact.

 

[CL21376]

does the trigger pull feel any different to when it does go BANG?

it feels the same, hammer just drops and click

when you test again, when it does not go BANG...confirm in battery.

not sure on this one....how do i confirm it is in battery?

inspect misfires for any primer contact.

none of the misfires i checked had any primer contact. i took 150 rounds, and eventually every round went off

what i didn't do, is check the primer contact after the rounds went off

 

[SW CQB 45]

not sure on this one....how do i confirm it is in battery?

in battery is a term of when the slide is all the way forward and barrel is in the locked position.

you can tell by looking at the back of the slide. if the back of the slide is not flush with the frame...likely its out of battery.

 

[CL21376]

Update!

Got her back from S&W today...Paperwork with the weapon says "Replaced Drawbar".

So what is the Drawbar and what does it do?

 

[novalty]

Got her back from S&W today...Paperwork with the weapon says "Replaced Drawbar".

So what is the Drawbar and what does it do?

Glad they took care of it for you, and you have it back. Don't you just love their descriptive breakdown of services

 

[Fastbolt]

In the DAO models the hammer is "located" (positioned, or "partially cocked") by the sear nose when the pistol is charged (retracting and releasing the slide to feed & chamber a round).

This positions the hammer so the hammer's throw notches can be reached and engaged by the rear hooks of the drawbar, and then when the trigger is pulled the drawbar causes the hammer move fully to the rear until it reaches a point where the hammer's throw notches to cam off the drawbar, releasing the hammer to fall forward. (It's easier to illustrate in pictures, obviously. )

Sounds like your drawbar might have had one or both of the rear hooked edges of the drawbar rounded off (becoming worn, damaged, out-of-spec, whatever) which might have resulted in the hammer sometimes falling prematurely ... meaning before the safety plunger was lifted enough to let the firing pin hit the primer and fire the gun.

Since the firing pin safety plunger is lifted by a lever which indexes off a leading edge of the rear of the drawbar (as the drawbar moves forward via trigger pull), with the lever pivoting its nose upward, and thereby lifting the plunger increasingly more as the drawbar is pulled forward by the trigger, if the hammer were to fall before the drawbar has pivoted the safety lever enough to move (lift) the plunger out of the way of the firing pin, then the pin's freedom of movement could be impeded. Maybe it wouldn't hit the primer cup hard enough to detonate it, or even at all.

Just guessing ...

 

[CL21376]

Fastbolt--

I had to read that a few times but it actually makes sense, thanks.

The firing pin wasn't hitting the primer at all. Oddly, this malfunction was only on the first round of a 7+1 load.

Took 15 business days from door-to-door. Consider me very pleased with S&W's customer service!

I guess I'm going to have to hit the range this weekend

Thanks!

 

[Fastbolt]

This image shows where the sear nose enters the notch to "locate" the hammer, as well as the "throw notch".

This image shows the hammer "located" by the sear nose (pistol has been charged) so the rear DA hooks of the drawbar can reach and engage the "throw notch". The pistol is ready to be fired by pulling the trigger.

 

[CL21376]

great pics...that really helps!

I'm glad it wasn't "operator error" on my part. Is this a common part to wear out?

 

[Fastbolt]

Well, I certainly wouldn't call it "common", although it can happen.

I think I can only remember having to replace something like 2-3 drawbars which appeared to have experienced enough wear on their notches that they started to exhibit functioning issues. (In the TDA guns a Skips-Double Action condition can result when the hammer or drawbar DA pickup notches start to become excessively worn or damaged.)

I can remember maybe a couple of drawbars which had to be replaced in guns because of breakage, which usually involves a crack/break at either rear corner or in the middle (behind the disconnector tab in the drawbar's tail. The newer drawbars have rounded inside corners at the rear instead of sharp angled corners, and the drawbar tails are machined thicker behind the disconnector tab. (They're produced better overall, nowadays.)

I think I've replaced about as many hammers.

Over the years I've helped support upwards of just over a thousand 3rd gen guns, and even if I wasn't involved in the repair myself, I heard about it from another armorer. That's not a lot of those parts to have to replace in that many well-worn, used & abused duty guns, I'd think.

FWIW, I've had to replace more worn, chipped or broken extractors, and almost as many ejectors, over the years. Both of those parts have been revised and improved over time, too.

It's not something that keeps me awake at night as far as my own 3rd gen guns.