New to me Highway Patrolman...Next to the Last, Almost Final Update, Sept. 10th, 2016
- Thread starter les.b
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Lee's Landing Billy
Member
Women seek security..Men seek approval. It keeps the world in order.
OP
Well, nothing is ever as simple as it may seem at first. I have been having much more fun with this 1970 issue Smith and Wesson Highway Patroman than I could have ever had had if I had bought it new!! Those of you who dropped by a few days ago are aware that forum member Weatherby, up in beleaguered Massachusetts had kindly donated a spiffy trigger to replace the rusted and pitted one that came with the revolver. I replaced the trigger, and that is where we left off, in post #50, above.
What I didn't mention at the time is that I found a few little challenges in the wake of that replacement. First, the existing cylinder stop had had stock removed to fit it to the original trigger, and it did not work with the new one. Fortunately I had several new, unfitted stops in my shop. This gave me the opportunity not just to fit the new stop to the new trigger, but to fit it to the cylinder stop cuts, and eliminate a bit of play in the cylinder. This in effect tightened up the cylinder, and also timed the stop correctly for the new trigger. Here is the new trigger with the stop fitted:
When I removed the trigger, as I took out the rebound slide, I saw that some one had clipped a coil from the rebound slide spring. Folks often do this to lighten the trigger pull, but it can have several negative effects on performance. I ordered a new spring, but for the time being, I am still using the existing one. This is just one of my pet peeves. I like keeping the correct factory spring, even though I know that many folks change it out or clip coils and still have good results.
One of the effects of a light rebound spring is "push off", particularly if combined with a worn single action edge on the trigger. That was the next little problem that I saw. It has been awhile since I remedied this problem, so I refreshed my mind in the excellent "sticky" right here on the forum, where some of the worlds best Smith Smiths reside!!! Here is a link to the thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/94072-faqs.html ... post number 6 covers the correct procedure for this simple, but delicate sharpening procedure. You must have the correct stone, a 6"X 1/2"X 1/2" Norton medium India stone. Those of us who have been fortunate enough to have attended S&W Armorer's School were issued one, along with a lot of other specialized tools to make the job easier, and to do it correctly. One should remove the very least ammount of metal possible... the case hardening is relatively shallow, and as you go deeper into the metal it is not as hard. Also, you are tampering with a very delicate balance of geometry which is extremely sensitive.
Here is a diagram of how to correctly sharpen the trigger hook, borrowed from Magnum 500 Nut's excellent thread "FAQs" which is linked above:
Anyway, about 5 minutes or less was more than enough to restore the correct edge to the single action of the new to me trigger. Put it back together again (by the way, it's a good idea to have a few used sideplate screws on hand when taking the plate on and off, to avoid excessive wear and boogering of the screws that came with the gun).
After I replace the rebound spring later, I'll go over the action one more time, just to make sure that everything is to my liking. But for right now, the single action pull is just a little ove 3 pounds, and there is no "push off", and no creep. Double action is great as well.
While I was in there, I found a couple of burrs on the inside of the sideplate that must have come from the factory, as they had been blued over when the gun was blued. You can see where they scratched the case coloring on the exposed (right) side of the hammer. I stoned them down just a little to relieve the hammer. Also ran the rebound slide over an Arkansas stone, to smooth it up just a little.
Well, then with the gun put back together, I function tested it, and found that it was shooting a little tighter, a lot better looking (new trigger and grip adapter) the action, trigger and cylinder were all tighter, and I am now closer to having a really great old warhorse that I will gladly put up against anything that the factory is putting out today!!!
Here is today's target compared with the last one on the 14th:
Thanks again to Weatherby, who sent me that new trigger and grip adapter, which started this project going!!!
And thanks to everyone who is reading this, and letting me share the joy of preserving another fine old firearm from the past. I know that there is a lot of detail here, but it probably took me longer to type than to do it. I was able to resurrect some of my old Armorer skills from the past, even though these little fixes are relatively simple, I always keep in mind the injunction from the Hippocratic Oath that Doctors swear: "First, do no Harm"!!! (Well, I think that's how it goes). So, if you haven't been to Armorer's school, you might want to seek some help when doing some of these things. And as a (retired) armorer, I always remind myself that I am not a "Gunsmith". That is a much more highly trained profession, and requires a lot more investment in equipment and skills.
Best Regards, Les
What I didn't mention at the time is that I found a few little challenges in the wake of that replacement. First, the existing cylinder stop had had stock removed to fit it to the original trigger, and it did not work with the new one. Fortunately I had several new, unfitted stops in my shop. This gave me the opportunity not just to fit the new stop to the new trigger, but to fit it to the cylinder stop cuts, and eliminate a bit of play in the cylinder. This in effect tightened up the cylinder, and also timed the stop correctly for the new trigger. Here is the new trigger with the stop fitted:
When I removed the trigger, as I took out the rebound slide, I saw that some one had clipped a coil from the rebound slide spring. Folks often do this to lighten the trigger pull, but it can have several negative effects on performance. I ordered a new spring, but for the time being, I am still using the existing one. This is just one of my pet peeves. I like keeping the correct factory spring, even though I know that many folks change it out or clip coils and still have good results.
One of the effects of a light rebound spring is "push off", particularly if combined with a worn single action edge on the trigger. That was the next little problem that I saw. It has been awhile since I remedied this problem, so I refreshed my mind in the excellent "sticky" right here on the forum, where some of the worlds best Smith Smiths reside!!! Here is a link to the thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/94072-faqs.html ... post number 6 covers the correct procedure for this simple, but delicate sharpening procedure. You must have the correct stone, a 6"X 1/2"X 1/2" Norton medium India stone. Those of us who have been fortunate enough to have attended S&W Armorer's School were issued one, along with a lot of other specialized tools to make the job easier, and to do it correctly. One should remove the very least ammount of metal possible... the case hardening is relatively shallow, and as you go deeper into the metal it is not as hard. Also, you are tampering with a very delicate balance of geometry which is extremely sensitive.
Here is a diagram of how to correctly sharpen the trigger hook, borrowed from Magnum 500 Nut's excellent thread "FAQs" which is linked above:
Anyway, about 5 minutes or less was more than enough to restore the correct edge to the single action of the new to me trigger. Put it back together again (by the way, it's a good idea to have a few used sideplate screws on hand when taking the plate on and off, to avoid excessive wear and boogering of the screws that came with the gun).
After I replace the rebound spring later, I'll go over the action one more time, just to make sure that everything is to my liking. But for right now, the single action pull is just a little ove 3 pounds, and there is no "push off", and no creep. Double action is great as well.
While I was in there, I found a couple of burrs on the inside of the sideplate that must have come from the factory, as they had been blued over when the gun was blued. You can see where they scratched the case coloring on the exposed (right) side of the hammer. I stoned them down just a little to relieve the hammer. Also ran the rebound slide over an Arkansas stone, to smooth it up just a little.
Well, then with the gun put back together, I function tested it, and found that it was shooting a little tighter, a lot better looking (new trigger and grip adapter) the action, trigger and cylinder were all tighter, and I am now closer to having a really great old warhorse that I will gladly put up against anything that the factory is putting out today!!!
Here is today's target compared with the last one on the 14th:
Thanks again to Weatherby, who sent me that new trigger and grip adapter, which started this project going!!!
And thanks to everyone who is reading this, and letting me share the joy of preserving another fine old firearm from the past. I know that there is a lot of detail here, but it probably took me longer to type than to do it. I was able to resurrect some of my old Armorer skills from the past, even though these little fixes are relatively simple, I always keep in mind the injunction from the Hippocratic Oath that Doctors swear: "First, do no Harm"!!! (Well, I think that's how it goes). So, if you haven't been to Armorer's school, you might want to seek some help when doing some of these things. And as a (retired) armorer, I always remind myself that I am not a "Gunsmith". That is a much more highly trained profession, and requires a lot more investment in equipment and skills.
Best Regards, Les
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OP
Great find at a very good price... I would have gladly paid it.
As far as the oil soaked stocks.... place them in an empty coffee can cover with acetone. Let them soak for a few days, change the acetone... let soak for a few more. Let them dry for a day, sand smooth the non checkered parts coat with tung oil... repeat as needed.... I did this with an old set that I put on my 66-3
DevilDog72:
Thanks for the tip. As you see, I've started on the inside, sort of working my way out. This has been lots of fun. I may actually start keeping my eyes peeled for guns with the potential for a little overhaul, I have had a great time.
What I hope to have, when I'm sone is not a "new" looking gun, but one with any rust removed, and stabilized to prevent further damage... There was very little rust, just some minuscule specks that really weren't apparent. I want it showing its wear, but not looking abused.
The stocks only have a very small ammount of varnish remaining, so I think your acetone idea is a good one. I once redid the stock on my early Winchester 94 with tung oil, and put 13 or 14 coats on, letting it dry overnight, and rubbing it down with 0000 steel wool between coats, or if high points showed up, might knock them down with very fine sand paper, then steel wool. The final finish looked like, in fact it was, a classic oil finish, and the wood just glowed through the oil which had penetrated into the wood.
I don't want to make them look new, just gently restored to match the vintage look of the gun.
Thanks again for sharing. I will definitely post again when I get a little more done on the project.
Best Regards, Les
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Did the tung oil thing on the stock and fore arm of my first rifle a "turn of the 20th century" Steven's Favorite....... still looking good 45 years later.... hanging over the door to my home office!!!!
Only been shot twice in all that time.... each of my boys fired their first day of shooting with that old Stevens Favorite. Rifling is about gone...... shoots soda can size groups...... but was neat to start them out on my first gun!
OP
Camster, although I have a few N frames, I hadn't done much with them recently, and had been spending the last year or so on I frames, improved I frames, and J frames. That made the big Ns seem huge. But now that I've been fooling with my new project, it doesn't seem nearly as big as it did a week or so ago. And even shooting full power 158 gr .357s through it seems tame after shooting the little J frame magnums, with their 11. Something ounce weight. This 40 ounce gun soaks up a lot of that recoil. Very pleasant, and with 38 spls, it is more like a 22!!!
Best Regards, Les
DevilDog72
US Veteran
forgot
I forgot one step... I used a new soft bristle tooth brush to apply and buff the checkering. I did this same thing on several sets and have just two or three coats of tung oil on them. In person they look great. I do not like the shiny look of varnish or poly coatings. As you handle the grips more they take on a very appealing ... glow. I have a set on my EDC 19-4 snub that the more I handle the better they look.
I forgot one step... I used a new soft bristle tooth brush to apply and buff the checkering. I did this same thing on several sets and have just two or three coats of tung oil on them. In person they look great. I do not like the shiny look of varnish or poly coatings. As you handle the grips more they take on a very appealing ... glow. I have a set on my EDC 19-4 snub that the more I handle the better they look.
OP
I forgot one step... I used a new soft bristle tooth brush to apply and buff the checkering. I did this same thing on several sets and have just two or three coats of tung oil on them. In person they look great. I do not like the shiny look of varnish or poly coatings. As you handle the grips more they take on a very appealing ... glow. I have a set on my EDC 19-4 snub that the more I handle the better they look.
DevilDog72:
I'm going to start on those stocks this weekend, and I see that my new trigger rebound spring (actually I ordered a 10 pack, for future use) is almost here, according to USPS tracking. I'll post some before and after pictures when I get the stocks refinished. There are only a couple of small spots of original varnish finish remaining, so I don't think that it is going to affect "value" negatively by refinishing them. What I hope to achieve is a "used" look in character with the worn bluing, but to remove the staining (in places it seems almost black) that came from being saturated with gun oil, and give them the glow that comes from a hand rubbed tung oil finish. Well, I sure appreciate all of the advice that you and others have given me.
Edit:
Here is a photo of the stocks before stripping the finish. They look worse in person than in the photos. The staining doesn't show in the photos as much as in person:
Best Regards, Les
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JK-linux
Member
Very nice revolver! I recently joined S&WF due to a newfound interest in older N-frames. Thanks for posting the photos and progress you've made.
OP
Thanks!!
And I'm glad you joined the forum. Welcome from West Virginia!!! In my opinion, this is the best forum on the 'net, bar none. There are world class experts on here (not me, I'm a duffer), and they are congenial and collegial, and willing to share their expertise with beginner and fellow expert as well. My time here has been a continual learning experience. I have made friends here as well, and other brands are tolerated as well, so you can talk Colts if you want, without anyone saying anything about it, or looking down their noses at you. Most of us have all kinds of firearms interests as well as just Smith and Wesson, although that is my main passion.
About this Model 28-2, the thing is, I've got a really nice shape Model 27 3 1/2", a really nice shape Model 29 4", and other really nice N frames, but this gun was sort of like an "orphan", I could spend time cleaning it up, and working on it, and tuning it, and fiddling with it more than I would feel comfortable doing with those higher condition Ns. Not to mention all of the other Smiths that I have. This one may end up being shot more than the others as well, as it is going to reflect more of my personality...and I have some "sweat equity" in it as well, and it will be set up with just the trigger pull I like and so on.
Thanks for checking out my thread about this project gun. I have the stocks soaking in some acetone right now. I'll keep you and everyone else posted!!
Best Regards, Les
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OP
Well, I am still working on my project gun, the 28-2. Today the new trigger rebound spring came:
And I installed it, replacing the one which cam with the gun, which had had a coil or coils clipped. I know that this is a common practice, to lighten the trigger pull, but as I noted above, I am not a fan, and when I encounter clipped coils, I usually replace the spring with a new one. So far, this is my only expenditure, at less than $2.00. I now feel that the revolver is more reliable, although I admit that I had not noticed any problems from the clipped spring.
Best Regards, Les
And I installed it, replacing the one which cam with the gun, which had had a coil or coils clipped. I know that this is a common practice, to lighten the trigger pull, but as I noted above, I am not a fan, and when I encounter clipped coils, I usually replace the spring with a new one. So far, this is my only expenditure, at less than $2.00. I now feel that the revolver is more reliable, although I admit that I had not noticed any problems from the clipped spring.
Best Regards, Les
TAC
Member
I think S&W, as well as most manufactures, error on the side of caution when it comes to springs. Taking into consideration, these guns could be used in frigid temperatures, gummed up with improper lubricants, and very dirty! They still need to function when needed. Stronger springs will hopefully overcome these conditions. But if a revolver is properly cleaned, lubricated, and used in normal climates, then you can get away with a lighter rebound or hammer spring most of the time. However, some guns are just tighter, and might be temperamental with lighter springs.
OP
TAC:
I think that my indoctrination at the factory probably has helped shape my preference for factory specs on these guns. While I am mostly a recreational shooter today, during the years that I was a police armorer, I was concerned that every one of the guns that left my bench would go bang every time the trigger was pulled. Back then it might be the difference between life and death. I wanted to make sure that heat and cold, rain, snow, etc were not going to hamper the function of a gun.
Today, except for my EDC, most of my guns just get shot at the range, and details are not so important, but I still like to have all of my guns ready, just in case, and within factory specs. One thing, I always know what to expect when I pick up one of my own guns!!
Just me, as they say... YMMV.
Best Regards, Les
TAC
Member
I agree completely.
OP
Here are the stocks after stripping off what little finish remained on them. There were I only a few tiny spots of varnish left on the stocks:
I soaked them for some time in a container, completely immersed in Acetone. Every so often I would take them out and scrub with a toothbrush and more acetone. Not only got the small remaining ammount of varnish off, but soaked out the crud and dirt from the checkering.
After gently smoothing the surface with some 0000 steel wool, I am now beginning to apply the tung oil finish. Hope to have a picture of the stocks at least partially finished sometime tomorrow.
Thanks for hanging in there with this project!!
Best Regards, Les
I soaked them for some time in a container, completely immersed in Acetone. Every so often I would take them out and scrub with a toothbrush and more acetone. Not only got the small remaining ammount of varnish off, but soaked out the crud and dirt from the checkering.
After gently smoothing the surface with some 0000 steel wool, I am now beginning to apply the tung oil finish. Hope to have a picture of the stocks at least partially finished sometime tomorrow.
Thanks for hanging in there with this project!!
Best Regards, Les
OP
Well, I thought some of you folks who have been so supportive during this little project of mine might like to see where we are now. I would have posted this earlier, but this doggone job of mine keeps interfering with my Forum posting!!!
Above, you can see how the stocks look with no finish at all. When I soaked and stripped them, I tried to get out a lot of the staining that was partly due, I believe, to leaching from the frame. There is no rust on the frame, but you can see where it has contacted the wood.
Here are the stocks with one coat of Tung oil:
With 2 coats:
With 3 coats:
And finally, for now, anyway, with 4 coats of Tung oil:
Here is where I am with this project now. With the stocks mounted, and remember all of the internal work that I've done, detailed in the above posts:
And one more shot. I think that the stocks look much better now, without looking "new":
What I like about Tung oil is that you can always add another coat at any time, and you can control the "shine" by knocking the shine down with either a little 0000 steel wool, or even a little rubbing compound. When I was applying the finish, I used my index finger to apply the oil, and rubbed it until it would start to feel just a little tacky. I then let it dry over night, and the next day, I would lightly take it down with the steel wool, and then buff it with the palm of my hand until it had a dull glow. Then apply another coat, and repeat the whole process.
For now, I'm going to leave it at 4 coats, and see how I like it.
Next this weekend, I think I'll do another, and more extensive range test. I feel like this has been a great little project, and so far I'm really happy with the results. Thanks for all of you who have contributed ideas and expertise, and in Weatherby's case, new trigger and grip adapter ( I'll be putting that back on, was just waiting til I was done with all the refinishing.
Best Regards, Les
Above, you can see how the stocks look with no finish at all. When I soaked and stripped them, I tried to get out a lot of the staining that was partly due, I believe, to leaching from the frame. There is no rust on the frame, but you can see where it has contacted the wood.
Here are the stocks with one coat of Tung oil:
With 2 coats:
With 3 coats:
And finally, for now, anyway, with 4 coats of Tung oil:
Here is where I am with this project now. With the stocks mounted, and remember all of the internal work that I've done, detailed in the above posts:
And one more shot. I think that the stocks look much better now, without looking "new":
What I like about Tung oil is that you can always add another coat at any time, and you can control the "shine" by knocking the shine down with either a little 0000 steel wool, or even a little rubbing compound. When I was applying the finish, I used my index finger to apply the oil, and rubbed it until it would start to feel just a little tacky. I then let it dry over night, and the next day, I would lightly take it down with the steel wool, and then buff it with the palm of my hand until it had a dull glow. Then apply another coat, and repeat the whole process.
For now, I'm going to leave it at 4 coats, and see how I like it.
Next this weekend, I think I'll do another, and more extensive range test. I feel like this has been a great little project, and so far I'm really happy with the results. Thanks for all of you who have contributed ideas and expertise, and in Weatherby's case, new trigger and grip adapter ( I'll be putting that back on, was just waiting til I was done with all the refinishing.
Best Regards, Les
I wudda been on that like a bum on a baloney sandwich.
In addition to a great gun, that holster is excellent and so is the belt!
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OP
Thanks, Warren!! Those are a couple of mighty nice looking specimens you have there as well. Thanks for dropping by, and sharing your treasures!!
Best Regards, Les
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