Night Sights?

[Wise_A]

That's not a concern for everyone. For example: My wife and I have no one living with us and NO ONE else has a key or permission to enter our home. Therefore, anyone we find in our home in the dark of night doesn't need to be identified if I see them...but I do need to know that my front sight is on them.

I always find this argument tenuous, at best. I can't imagine trying to explain it: "Well, I saw that someone was there, so I shot."

"How did you know they were a deadly threat?"

"They were there."

I totally get where you're going with it, and where you're at. I just can't imagine trying to sell it to the people who decide whether I go to jail or not. I'm not arguing against night sights as much as I'm arguing in favor of flashlights and light switches. Aside from the fact that, well, I'd rather not shoot a fool if I can help it.

Also understand that you're not even metering a 3.0 or 4.0 on my Disagreement Scale. The really high scores go to instructors who literally tried to teach students to shoot at noise sources, because "you won't always be able to see your attacker!".

Like, dude, if it's that dark, how the hell is he gonna find me? Are ninja assassins with night vision goggles on the threat spectrum somewhere?

Come to think of it, a light switch would work wonders on ninja assassins with NVGs

 

[shouldazagged]

If, God forbid, I were ever forced to use a gun to save my life, a twenty-yard shot would not be a concern. It would be up close and abruptly noisy, most likely point shooting with no reference to sights. If it happened at night it would almost certainly be in my apartment, at a range of no more than fifteen feet. There's enough light indoors here to see an intruder, so there's enough to see my front sight if necessary.

In the extremely unlikely event that I considered putting night sights on a defensive handgun, I would go the front sight only route.

 

[CB3]

Night sights do what they are supposed to do: they help you align sights when it is dark. I like them, particularly the simple Heine Straight Eights.

If I don't need them, they don't interfere with anything.

I can't imagine them becoming a legal liability. Anything as common as night sights that enhances your ability to shoot well should be able to be justified.

There are times when the target is identifiable by some means, including your flashlight, yet your gun and sights are in the dark. Night sights help.

Training to shoot in darkness is easier with night sights, even if you can see your sights.

Night sights that are tritium are different than the type that require a light source to make them glow. Being in a drawer or dark place does not effect the constant glow of tritium night sights.

The two disadvantages are initial cost and limited life—usually about 8-10 years although the lamps do dim gradually toward the end.

To the OP: if the above two negatives don't bother you, I see night sights as an advantage over other iron sights. There are times when they can be very helpful. All other times they can be ignored to no disadvantage.

 

[DevilDog72]

All my semi auto's wear XS Big Dots..... love them.

As for intruders in my home at night... dark.. uninvited, well, that's just too bad.... for them.

 

[Roller Delayed]

If it's too dark to see the sights, how are you IDing the target?

Night vision makes seeing fine details like sights much more difficult than recognizing a face. Especially when the gun is in deeper shadow than the target.

It isn't very hard to create this condition at home so you no longer have to wonder.

 

[Wise_A]

I don't think you understand the point.

There are plenty of these cases a year--"homeowner shoots X, it was dark". A bunch of dumb accidents where people died, that could have been prevented by a light switch or something from Streamlight. Everybody thinks about low-light sights, nobody thinks about increasing the light level. It's dumb as hell.

Thanks for playing.

 

[CB3]

I don't think you understand the point.

Your point seems to be that ID'ing a threat to avoid accidentally shooting an innocent person is a person's first responsibility in self defense.

It is not.

Surviving the encounter is the first responsibility. How that is accomplished has a very wide range of solutions. Turning on a light switch may or may not be one of them.

If you are in your own home and know where the light switches are, turning on a light in an otherwise darkened home allows you to ID a potential threat. Of course, that may get you killed too.

If you have a flashlight readily accessible in a fast moving attack and can use it to ID a threat, in some circumstances that could be better than just shooting in the dark. Or it could get you killed.

There are numerous situations, especially outside of your home, where you cannot control the light; where you cannot get to your flashlight in time; where time is so short and your fear of losing your life so great that you make the decision to shoot and your gun's sights cannot be easily seen and therefore aligned. This happens, sometimes. Night sights can help align the gun for a quicker, more accurate shot.

ID'ing the target is important but not always possible. The situation may "ID" the target. Shining a light may put you at a tactical and split second time disadvantage. Light can be a friend or foe. Maintaining darkness can be a significant advantage.

Unfortunately, none of us can control how, where or under what conditions the fight is going to be. Being as prepared as possible is prudent. Night sights fall into this category of preparedness. They are not a guarantee of success, but rather another aid to winning. They don't stop anyone from turning on lights or using a flashlight if that is the tactical decision the person makes.

I certainly don't want to shoot a person who does need to be shot. However, I am not convinced that turning on a light is the correct, only or simple solution to the problem of deciding to shoot a potential threat.

 

[Roller Delayed]

I don't think you understand the point.

There are plenty of these cases a year--"homeowner shoots X, it was dark". A bunch of dumb accidents where people died, that could have been prevented by a light switch or something from Streamlight. Everybody thinks about low-light sights, nobody thinks about increasing the light level. It's dumb as hell.

Thanks for playing.

And you don't understand that there are light levels where you can clearly identify the target but not aim well.

But that would require you actually getting out of your armchair and acquiring some experience.

 

[Jessie]

One other thought is after you use your flashlight to ID the threat, it may be good to turn that light off so it doesn't pinpoint your location.
That's where night sights can help to see your sights after your eyes were also exposed to the light.
If you keep your light on it also helps to see your sights if they're shadowed.
I don't really see a negative to having them, but that's just my opinion.

 

[speedyquad]

I have night sights on my shield. They aren't for shooting in absolute dark. They are for shooting in low/poor light situations where I can see the target, but can't see my regular sights.

For instance, the reason that I decided that it was time for night sights happened when I arrived home from work around 11:30 pm one evening. As I was getting out of my vehicle on the street, out of nowhere came a guy at my passenger side door after i was already out and had the car locked. He kept the street light behind him so that I couldn't see his face. He asked me a few questions like what was I doing? Where had I come from? Etc. Then came the interesting questions. Did I have a cigarette. No, I don't smoke. Did I at least have a light for him? Nope. Did I have any snuff? Nope. Don't chew. Did I have any gum? Nope...

The entire time, I had my hand on my gun, hoping that I would be able to see the sights if needed. I checked the next night with just the slide. I would NOT have been able to see the sights. I can see the night sights though. I also could see enough of the guy to put a few rounds center mass, if needed.

I really believe that he was trying to get me close enough to grab me.

 

[Mister X]

I have night sights on my shield. They aren't for shooting in absolute dark. They are for shooting in low/poor light situations where I can see the target, but can't see my regular sights.

For instance, the reason that I decided that it was time for night sights happened when I arrived home from work around 11:30 pm one evening. As I was getting out of my vehicle on the street, out of nowhere came a guy at my passenger side door after i was already out and had the car locked. He kept the street light behind him so that I couldn't see his face. He asked me a few questions like what was I doing? Where had I come from? Etc. Then came the interesting questions. Did I have a cigarette. No, I don't smoke. Did I at least have a light for him? Nope. Did I have any snuff? Nope. Don't chew. Did I have any gum? Nope...

The entire time, I had my hand on my gun, hoping that I would be able to see the sights if needed. I checked the next night with just the slide. I would NOT have been able to see the sights. I can see the night sights though. I also could see enough of the guy to put a few rounds center mass, if needed.

I really believe that he was trying to get me close enough to grab me.

At those distances, sights are irrelevant.

 

[Ziggy2525]

It's always interesting how these discussions break down into black and white arguments or in this thread "total light vs total darkness" arguments.

I like night sights when the target is illuminated well enough to identify and I'm in lighting dim enough to make me harder to see. That's how you'd want it right? For me, those conditions make sight acquisition harder. Night sights help me then.

Never had a self defense encounter, hope never to have, but I have tested night sights vs no night sights in IDPA flashlight matches. I shoot better with the night sights than without.

 

[Frogwalking]

Thanks goys. I have ordered TruGlo night sights. Lots of good thought in this forum. They may never be needed, and that is fine. As someone said, the negatives are insignificant.

 

[Wise_A]

And you don't understand that there are light levels where you can clearly identify the target but not aim well.

But that would require you actually getting out of your armchair and acquiring some experience.

This is actually kind of funny. Take a chill pill, dude--my point is that lights are good, and night sights aren't a final solution to there not being a lot of light.

Your point seems to be that ID'ing a threat to avoid accidentally shooting an innocent person is a person's first responsibility in self defense.

It is not.

Surviving the encounter is the first responsibility. How that is accomplished has a very wide range of solutions. Turning on a light switch may or may not be one of them.

So basically "killed in the streetz" combined with "it's not my problem if I shoot some guy that didn't deserve it".

Not shooting innocent people is entirely your responsibility. There's no "first second third" in play--you have to do all of them. At the same time. Difficult, I know.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Dude, dial it back a notch. We're all friends here . . .

And you don't understand that there are light levels where you can clearly identify the target but not aim well.

But that would require you actually getting out of your armchair and acquiring some experience.

 

[speedyquad]

At those distances, sights are irrelevant.

I never mentioned distances. I said he was trying to get me close enough to grab me, not that i was that close. At no point was he closer than 10ft or farther than 20, at least until the encounter was over. Sights absolutely would have been relevant.

 

[Protected One]

So basically "killed in the streetz" combined with "it's not my problem if I shoot some guy that didn't deserve it".

Not shooting innocent people is entirely your responsibility. There's no "first second third" in play--you have to do all of them. At the same time. Difficult, I know.

First. The discussion is about a HOME INVASION - not something in the streets.

Second. If he is in my house, uninvited, in the middle of the night.....[which means he's already broken through a locked, dead-bolted, reinforced door, or a window] that's hardly an innocent person. So whether he "deserves it or not - he CERTAINLY ASKED for it.

 

[Mister X]

I never mentioned distances. I said he was trying to get me close enough to grab me, not that i was that close. At no point was he closer than 10ft or farther than 20, at least until the encounter was over. Sights absolutely would have been relevant.

It depends on who you ask. You said you were conversing with him and thought that he was trying to get close enough to grab you, so I assumed he was relatively close and moving towards you. Inside 21 feet or so(especially if moving), threat-focused shooting is usually the best choice from my perspective.

"Do you need high visibility sights for shots inside 7 yards? Nope. In fact, you could literally take the sights off the gun and be able to, statistically speaking, handle most CCW gunfights easily." - Gabe Suarez

The focus being on the first couple of minutes...

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k_AbAfZtTpk[/ame]

 

[Ziggy2525]

...
The focus being on the first couple of minutes...

If you go to the 7 minute mark in the video, Rob Pincus asks rhetorically (paraphrasing) "are night sights bad?" His answer is no, they work in a small percentages of cases where you are in the dark, the BG is illuminated, and the distance is far enough to use the sights.

One way I found where it's dark, your sights aren't illuminated, but the target is illuminated, is if you use either the Chapman or the Ayoob grip on your flashlight. Those flashlight grips allow better than single hand pistol control but don't illuminate the sights well.

Like Pincus says in the video you linked, if you don't mind paying for night sights, as long as the configuration of the sights are good, no harm.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Night sights are only a necessity if you decide they are. If you just have to have them, then there is probably a good reason for it. And there is only one way to know if they will work for you.

Buy a set. See for yourself. Trijicon, Meprolight, Ameriglo, and Truglo are good to go.