NJ case may be going to SCOTUS

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SCOTUS will be ruling on cert, still a ways to go.

NRA-ILA | N.J. man?s handgun case before U.S. Supreme Court on Friday



The U.S. Supreme Court will decide soon whether it will hear a Sussex County man's challenge to New Jersey's handgun laws.
The lawsuit, brought by John Drake, challenges the "justifiable need" requirement the state asks for carrying a handgun.
 
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we should know on monday if they will hear it, wont hear it or delayed voting on it yet.
 
I like the way this is phrased.

Issue: (1) Whether the Second Amendment secures a right to carry handguns outside the home for self-defense; and (2) whether state officials violate the Second Amendment by requiring that individuals wishing to exercise their right to carry a handgun for self-defense first prove a "justifiable need" for doing so.

IF the SCOTUS decided in favor of this synopsis pretty much as stated, it would be HUGE! Basically the entire U.S. would become "Shall Issue."

Hope springs eternal!

Fingers crossed.
 
On another note, the NRA is pushing for full reciprocity across every state, once again.

This is a dangerous and short sighted strategy.

That just what we need, the precedent that the Feds can dictate gun laws to the States.

I do hope the NJ case gets heard.
 
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This is a dangerous and short sighted strategy.

That just what we need, the precedent that the Feds can dictate gun laws to the States.

You're looking at it backwards. Reciprocity doesn't dictate gun laws to the states, what it does is require one state to honor the rights of citizens of another state while they're visiting. This would merely be extending the full faith and credit clause to carry permits in the same way that you stay married or legally drive when you vacation in another state.

There is no downside to a straight reciprocity bill, the only worry is if they try to stack restrictions or more stringent qualifications to existing permits. But that's why you watch the legislation and contact your reps and the NRA to let them know what's acceptable and what isn't.
 
The precedent as you call it is already set. I submit that you're wrong about and don't understand the plain text of the Article:

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

The above Article plainly covers state licenses of any kind, marital (of any flavor) and carry included. Also permitted is Congress's ability to make laws requiring states to honor other states' acts, licenses, etc.

While there is always the possibility of opening cans of worms and having intended legislation backfire, I trust the NRA to make sure that it doesn't.
 
The problem is that the Feds DO control things like drivers licenses between states. For example, the DOT sets standards for drivers licenses then punishes states that don't comply with the standards by cutting their federal highway funding. I can envision a scenario where the department of justice sets firearm permit standards and then links state public safety funding to compliance. I usually agree with the NRA's position on things, but I think this is a slippery slope that will result in more restrictive licensing in places where things are in pretty good shape right now. I think it would be much better if we continue down the path we are on with each state deciding on its own how it will recognize other states permits.
 
cmj8591, I'm actually a little surprised to read someone from Massachusetts hoping to leave things as-is with regards to Federal gun law influence. Your state drives me nuts - I live in Vermont and travel to Connecticut now and then, and the only practical way to get there is through Massachusetts. Massachusetts' laws are as crazy as can be. As it stands now, I cannot buy pistol ammo in CT and bring it back to Vermont through Massachusetts without committing a Massachusetts felony. If I buy rifle ammo in CT and bring it back to VT, I have to have the rifle(s) it goes to or I'd be committing a Massachusetts felony. How crazy is that? A few exceptions to the above: Massachusetts will allow me to bring a pistol (but no ammo) to CT, but it depends what I'd do with it in CT. If I was going to a sanctioned competition, and could prove it, they will allow it. If I was going to a show, and could prove it, they would allow it. But if I wanted to shoot with an old service buddy in CT, Massachusetts will not allow me passage through their territory. Those gun-hating liberals in Massachusetts figured out how to extend their tentacles into other states when they decide what they'll grant me save passage to do in another state. I could get a Massachusetts permit that would allow me to possess ammo or firearms, but I'd have to spend over $800 in training and travel expenses and 4 days of travel (part of it is to take training in Massachusetts that I've already taken in other states but Mass says it has to be taken in their state) to do it, and that's for the first year of being permitted In following years it would cost around $600 annually and two days travel to keep a Massachusetts permit. It's maddening what your state does - I'd be willing to throw the dice to have Federal laws pre-empt what your state's crazy liberals have done to the laws and my freedoms.
 
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Yet again - Distributed for discussion on Friday conference, May 2.

That's three Friday conference discussions in a row. They haven't accepted it, but they haven't denied Cert. Something is afoot.

One can't help but wonder if the judges realize they're going to have to make a favorable ruling constitutionally for Shall Issue (a desire for means of legal self defense being the only criteria one needs) and don't want to go there.

One hopes!!
 
There is some speculation that SCOTUS is waiting to see what, if anything, the 9th Circuit does with Peruta and the other two cases. While at the same time, the 9th is waiting to see what SCOTUS does with Drake.

There is a clear split among the Circuits and it's likely that SCOTUS is waiting for a really clean case before they take up the question. Drake might be that case or Peruta.

Yet again - Distributed for discussion on Friday conference, May 2.

That's three Friday conference discussions in a row. They haven't accepted it, but they haven't denied Cert. Something is afoot.

One can't help but wonder if the judges realize they're going to have to make a favorable ruling constitutionally for Shall Issue (a desire for means of legal self defense being the only criteria one needs) and don't want to go there.

One hopes!!
 
I'm opposed to the Feds meddling in state concealed carry permits for exactly the reason stated by cmj8591. It will not end well for us.

Both of you are wrong, based on the recent history of 2A cases. Heller, McDonald, Ezell, Peruta, and Moore have all been wins for Second Amendment Rights. State courts in blue states will not deal with these cases.
 
I'm opposed to the Feds meddling in state concealed carry permits for exactly the reason stated by cmj8591. It will not end well for us.

We are one "United States" and there is only one "Constitution and Bill of Rights". There should only be 1 law (if there must be a law) regarding guns that applies regardless of which state line we cross. If each state is allowed to create or alter the law, we will never know for sure if we are breaking the law as we cross state lines.

To effectively have just one law it must be implemented at the highest level of jurisdiction and in this case a Federal law would be required.

Think about traveling in a vehicle. vt shooter's post is a perfect example.

Additionally it might stop (or reduce) the effects of $$Bloombergs$$ wallet.
 
When I drive from Mass into Vermont, the State of Vermont recognizes my Mass drivers license. They do that because when I get my license in Mass I comply with certain criteria set forth by the federal DOT. That criteria is also a requirement for drivers in Vermont. That is how the State of Vermont insures that everyone who operates a MV in their state is not vision impaired for example. If the State of Vermont decides that blind people have a right to operate a MV and remove that criteria from their licensing process then the Feds stop sending funding for highway maintenance. This is a very simplistic example but imagine how a federal gun license would open up the ability for meddling with the conditions for compliance. It would be great to have "1 law" like wittmwba says and I agree with that idea. But I think that we're deluding ourselves if we think that the Fed license laws would be crafted to look out for our gun rights.
 
This is also incorrect. The United States is a federation of independent states which unified and formed a federal government to do things which the states were not able to do on their own. The Constitution spells those things out and parts that are unclear have been litigated and will continue to be so.

The Second Amendment as originally written prohibited the federal government from taking weapons from the state militias. Because the militias were composed of all men of adult age, all men of adult age were not to be debarred from possessing weapons.

The states, being sovereign, were able to write their own constitutions and manage their own internal affairs. That is why they are states and not provinces.

Court decisions over several years expanded parts of the Bill of Rights to the states. The privileges or immunities clause of the 14th Amendment would have done what you propose, but it was gutted in the 19th century by the so called Slaughter House cases.

In his concurring, but separate opinion on MacDonald, Justice Thomas opined that he would have preferred to have decided the case on privileges or immunities, which would have pretty much ended the debate about gun ownership in this country. The other four Justices who voted with Justice Thomas averred and decided on the grounds that like the First Amendment, the Second Amendment applied to the states as well as the federal government.

In Heller, the Court held that while there is a Second Amendment Right to bear arms in the home for self defense, the states may set limits on that right. Which is where the law stands today.

Drake and Peruta bear on the right to bear arms outside the home. That was a question left unanswered by Heller or MacDonald, and only answered partially by Peruta and Moore in that they are Circuit Court decisions which are only binding in their respective circuits.

We still have a long way to go to fully establish our Second Amendment Rights, but I am convinced that we will win.

We are one "United States" and there is only one "Constitution and Bill of Rights". There should only be 1 law (if there must be a law) regarding guns that applies regardless of which state line we cross. If each state is allowed to create or alter the law, we will never know for sure if we are breaking the law as we cross state lines.

To effectively have just one law it must be implemented at the highest level of jurisdiction and in this case a Federal law would be required.

Think about traveling in a vehicle. vt shooter's post is a perfect example.

Additionally it might stop (or reduce) the effects of $$Bloombergs$$ wallet.
 
Just heard on AP Radio News that the SCOTUS will not be taking the case--this means the lower court's ruling stands--upholding their "justifiable need" requirement.
:mad:

Sorry NJ.
 
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