Now What Do I Do- RESOLUTION Post #34

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Many months ago I dropped off my nearly new Cimarron/Uberti 1873 Winchester Short Rifle to have a Lyman tang Sight installed by my local gun shop's armorer. He decided not to tackle the job so they sent the rifle to a gunsmith in the Pittsburgh area.

Several months went by without word. My good friend and LGS owner received multiple guns he's sent in for more complex work, but not mine. He called and was told it's next in line. More weeks went by and the rifle finally came back to my friends store. The problem starts here.

The rifle now has a barrel which is canted nearly 15 degrees to the right of the stock! This makes the tang sight utterly useless.
I had installed a folding rear sight prior to sending the rifle out. I shot the rifle with the folding sight and the barrel was not canted or leaning in any way. The store owner called the gunsmith and asked why they returned the rifle with a barrel that is canted enough to make a tang sight useless. The said it came in that way he then asked why they didn't call about the issue with the barrel BEFORE installing the sight. No reply.

The rifle was sent back to the gunsmith asking them to correct the barrel cant. The gunsmiths returned the rifle without fixing it, saying it was manufactured that way, or somebody removed the barrel and over-tightened it when reinstalling it. Well, the barrel was fine before it left my possession. The gunsmith swears they didn't take it apart and so does the armorer who had it first. All I know is somebody DID take the rifle apart because all the bright rust blue screws now have bright metal showing from a slightly rough screwdriver.

So, my friend who owns the gun store,(and yes I originally purchased the gun through him) and I are stuck knowing that either the armorer- the owner's best friend or the gunsmiths are lying. Next, we both contacted Cimarron to see if they can fix the issue and have never received any response. What the heck am I supposed to do now? I have a supremely useless $1400 rifle plus $90 sight.
 
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What kind of a gunsmith can't mount a tang sight? And why would your gun shop send it off to another gunsmith without at least asking you first (maybe he did but you didn't say so). And why would there have needed to be any work done on a barrel if all that was being done was to install a tang sight? I suppose you could have legal recourse against your dealer or the other gunsmith, but you would probably need to be able to prove that the barrel was not canted when you turned it over to the gun shop.
 
There's a lot of "Armorers" and "Parts Changers" out there masquerading as "Gunsmiths". Before I turn any quality firearm of mine over to anyone for work, I check credentials and references. It's a 100% Buyer-Beware environment.

If I wanted to keep this rifle and do whatever it takes to make it right, I'd contact Turnbull Gunsmiths to at least get their professional advice.
Restoration Services - Turnbull Manufacturing Company

As to the rest of your story, chalk it up to experience, lesson learned. Wise men make mistakes, they just don't make the same mistake twice. Best of Luck to you.
Restoration Services - Turnbull Manufacturing Company
 
What kind of a gunsmith can't mount a tang sight? And why would your gun shop send it off to another gunsmith without at least asking you first (maybe he did but you didn't say so). And why would there have needed to be any work done on a barrel if all that was being done was to install a tang sight? I suppose you could have legal recourse against your dealer or the other gunsmith, but you would probably need to be able to prove that the barrel was not canted when you turned it over to the gun shop.

The first person didn't do the job because the rifle didn't fit into his mill table. Yes, my gun shop owner friend asked me about sending it to the real gunsmith. I know the barrel wasn't canted, I shot it. However since I didn't take detailed photos of the relationship of the barrel to the receiver, I can't prove it. And I'm sure not going to try and sue my friend.

My question to the very large gunsmithing outfit who mounted the sight and returned the rifle with a canted barrel is- Why can't they fix it? Surely there is a way to remedy a barrel which is threaded just a tiny bit too far into the receiver.
 
How close are you to the owner of the LGS? This was a bailment. He was to return to you an undamaged forearm. Is your friendship worth $1,400. If so, eat the loss. If not, small claims court against the owner of the LGS or the LGS if a corporation. The owner has recourse against the "gunsmith." Your business was with the owner.

I didn't see the above post before sending mine. Never mind.
 
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Your LGS owner may be a friend, but he did not do right by you. You effectively contracted with him to do the work you wanted done. He chose to subcontract that work. The work is deficient in quality. I believe your LGS is responsible for your loss because he chose to subcontract the work. He is the primary contractor and therefore responsible.

If it happened to me I would be prepared to lose the friendship ans ask for compensation from the LGS. It can in turn fight it out with the subcontractor it selected. If I could not get comwpnsation, I would file a claim in small claims court for the full amount of your loss, $1400. I would file against both the LGS and the subcontractor. All parties are in PA and you can file in the district where the initial Kobe was ordered, that is in the district court for the LGS location.

The bottom line to me is you had no part in the mishap. Even if the barrel was canted when you ordered the work, I see it as the responsibility of the armorer to know that the sight should not be installed, and then notify you of the problem.
 
Small clams court is your only option

Possibly where you are, in my area its nothing more than a big waste of time. You MIGHT win a judgement but the sticky wicket is collecting on said judgement.

SCC is one of those things that seems real good till you use it!:mad:


Never mounted a tang sight but have shot a few guns with them and to be honest unless I'm missing something important it looks rather simple.
 
My good friend and LGS owner .....
It seems to me the liability lies on your "good friend" who received the job from you. Maybe he can propose an acceptable solution. If not, then you've found out the value of your friendship.

FWIW, getting tangs D&T is a recurring problem on other forums too. Good luck.
 
Possibly where you are, in my area its nothing more than a big waste of time. You MIGHT win a judgement but the sticky wicket is collecting on said judgement.

SCC is one of those things that seems real good till you use it!:mad:


Never mounted a tang sight but have shot a few guns with them and to be honest unless I'm missing something important it looks rather simple.

If you win a judgement and it not satisfied un PA law, you can have the county sheriff enforce the jusgement. If the judgement is not paid in the time allotted by the sheriff, you Can file for a sheriff's sale of enough property to cover the judgement. That last option usually gets the judgement paid. Been there, done it.
 
THIS SUMS IT UP PRETTY WELL.

Your LGS owner may be a friend, but he did not do right by you. You effectively contracted with him to do the work you wanted done. He chose to subcontract that work. The work is deficient in quality. I believe your LGS is responsible for your loss because he chose to subcontract the work. He is the primary contractor and therefore responsible.

If it happened to me I would be prepared to lose the friendship ans ask for compensation from the LGS. It can in turn fight it out with the subcontractor it selected. If I could not get comwpnsation, I would file a claim in small claims court for the full amount of your loss, $1400. I would file against both the LGS and the subcontractor. All parties are in PA and you can file in the district where the initial Kobe was ordered, that is in the district court for the LGS location.

The bottom line to me is you had no part in the mishap. Even if the barrel was canted when you ordered the work, I see it as the responsibility of the armorer to know that the sight should not be installed, and then notify you of the problem.

Business & friendship often don't mix. I think a canted barrel would have been noticed by both gunsmiths and the LGS owner when you handed it over. You should have been notified about it BEFORE ANYTHING was done, (subbing it out). If the first smith & LGS is a true friend they would do right by you, after all they took it in/didn't mention anything about a canted bbl & are ultimately responsible for what happened to it once it was in their possession. Did you buy the gun from them? Much to do over a simple sounding fix.
 
Steamloco76:

What a horrible situation you are in. Rather than taking legal action (small claims court), have you considered trying mediation instead? I've been a mediator for over 30 years, and I am very pleased to note how many bad situations were resolved through mediation thus preserving the relationship between the parties while still resolving the conflict.

Good luck,

Dave
 
I feel your pain.

Had a Colt SAA that I sent to a well known company in Michigan to have another barrel installed on it. When I got it back I noticed the barrel had a ring in it and deduced it was from the barrel clamps being tightend to tight, squeezing the barrel. Called them up and explained the situation and was told they didn't do that.:mad: Last time doing business with them.

Sent a Winchester Model 1892 in .32-20 to a fellow in Wisconsin to have a new barrel installed and some other work done. Didn't hear anything for over a year and finally got a hold of him. He said he was battling cancer and would try and get it done and shipped back to me as soon as he could. More time went by and learned he died. Never got the rifle back since sending it to him.:(
 
Many months ago I dropped off my nearly new Cimarron/Uberti 1873 Winchester Short Rifle to have a Lyman tang Sight installed by my local gun shop's armorer. He decided not to tackle the job so they sent the rifle to a gunsmith in the Pittsburgh area.

Several months went by without word. My good friend and LGS owner received multiple guns he's sent in for more complex work, but not mine. He called and was told it's next in line. More weeks went by and the rifle finally came back to my friends store. The problem starts here.

The rifle now has a barrel which is canted nearly 15 degrees to the right of the stock! This makes the tang sight utterly useless.
I had installed a folding rear sight prior to sending the rifle out. I shot the rifle with the folding sight and the barrel was not canted or leaning in any way. The store owner called the gunsmith and asked why they returned the rifle with a barrel that is canted enough to make a tang sight useless. The said it came in that way he then asked why they didn't call about the issue with the barrel BEFORE installing the sight. No reply.

The rifle was sent back to the gunsmith asking them to correct the barrel cant. The gunsmiths returned the rifle without fixing it, saying it was manufactured that way, or somebody removed the barrel and over-tightened it when reinstalling it. Well, the barrel was fine before it left my possession. The gunsmith swears they didn't take it apart and so does the armorer who had it first. All I know is somebody DID take the rifle apart because all the bright rust blue screws now have bright metal showing from a slightly rough screwdriver.

So, my friend who owns the gun store,(and yes I originally purchased the gun through him) and I are stuck knowing that either the armorer- the owner's best friend or the gunsmiths are lying. Next, we both contacted Cimarron to see if they can fix the issue and have never received any response. What the heck am I supposed to do now? I have a supremely useless $1400 rifle plus $90 sight.

Your friend that subbed out the sight job owes you a new gun . . .
 
It would seem your LGS friend would have some leverage with the place he sent to gun out to. He could tell them if they don't make this right, they've heard the last from him, plus the loss of good will.
 
Your friend that subbed out the sight job owes you a new gun . . .

I think it will eventually end up with him buying the gun back from me for store credit. He is not likely to say "Well, I can't get this made right, so you are out of luck."

If I was 100% sure the rifle was damage by the gunsmith shop, I'd name them, however there is that lingering 10%. The betting man in me would put a large sum on this scenario. A rifle comes in needing a tang hole drilled. The gunsmiths are busy doing more involved work so they put it on the mechanics to do pile. The mechanic then pawns it off on the trainee. Said newbie thinks taking the rifle apart and removing the barrel will make the job easier. Then the newbie just screws the barrel in tight, puts everything together and ships it out. Highly doubtful a real gunsmith ever saw the screwed up rifle.
 
The earlier post about the business is between you and the LGS owner is correct (at least under Uniform Commercial Code). Because of your friendship and that got you nowhere, have your attorney(s) contact with an inquiry, dose he plan on providing you with a new gun, or is he have a "Competent" gunsmith correct the damaged rifle. The fees for the sight and installation are part of you damages (as well as lawyer fees) if this isn't cleared up ASAP.

I have installed a tang sight on one of my lever actions and did mess it up! That is why you sent it to the shop to be done professionally! I assume the took the barrel off to fit their equipment and improperly reinstalled it, It is still their problem to fix or pay for!

Ivan

I am not a lawyer, but had the Business Law class in college. This is text book simple. (you might have your lawyer remind them this is why they have insurance, and to make a claim!)
 
Small clams court is your only option

And if that doesn't work, you might give the small oyster court a try.
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My uneducated guess is that if you ok'd your local guy to send it off ..... your complaint is with the out-of-town guy.

If you're thinking of legal action it'd better be only on a matter of principal and not with expectation of being made whole again.

Regardless ...... it stinks for sure. Sorry to hear that.
 
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