Mainsail
Member
If CC was a deterrent, then nobody would ever get mugged; after all, if your gun is concealed you look exactly like someone who is unarmed looks. People that look (or are) unarmed are robbed, mugged, or raped every few minutes.
OC vs CC
- Thread starter lestuder3
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If CC was a deterrent, then nobody would ever get mugged; after all, if your gun is concealed you look exactly like someone who is unarmed looks. People that look (or are) unarmed are robbed, mugged, or raped every few minutes.
kbm6893
Member
Hmm... When the City had a big hiring of applicants for the PD & FD, they put 'em all in a pit with a ladder. Those smart enough to use the ladder to climb out went to Fire Academy. Those who stayed in the pit and sulked went to Police Academy.
(Couldn't resist... It's an old joke for an age old rivalry
- - - -
Retired Nozzle Nut and Ditch Doctor.
And then they spend the rest of their careers begging the cops not to ticket them or arrest them for DWI!
He should have taken the NYPD test.
March 3, 2005—Hungry for new recruits, the NYPD is hiring applicants with arrest records and shoving others through without full background checks, the Daily News has learned.
In recent years, the Police Department has knowingly hired New Yorkers who have been charged with laundering drug money, assault, grand larceny and weapons possession, according to documents and sources familiar with the recruiting.
............
"We are hiring people to be cops who have no respect for the law," said former NYPD Sgt. Anthony Petroglia, who worked in the department's applicant processing division for nearly 10 years before retiring in 2002.
"We are hiring people who were charged with crimes that get you thrown off the force if you do them in uniform," he said. "All we are doing is buying trouble for the future."
.....
NYPD investigators flagged many of the questionable recruits because of their arrest records or shady past. But after a review, police brass welcomed them to the ranks of the Finest.
............
"We are hiring people to be cops who have no respect for the law," said former NYPD Sgt. Anthony Petroglia, who worked in the department's applicant processing division for nearly 10 years before retiring in 2002.
"We are hiring people who were charged with crimes that get you thrown off the force if you do them in uniform," he said. "All we are doing is buying trouble for the future."
.....
NYPD investigators flagged many of the questionable recruits because of their arrest records or shady past. But after a review, police brass welcomed them to the ranks of the Finest.
NYPD Chief of Personnel Rafael Pineiro said the cases reviewed by The News were carefully vetted and met department standards.
In each case, the recruit's arrests - which included robbery, weapons possession and assault - were dismissed or pleaded down to less serious violations.
O"I feel comfortable with these cases," Pineiro said. "We have certain standards and we met them." LOL
.......
NYPD hiring guidelines require candidates to be rejected if they have any conviction within two years, if the initial charge was a felony; more than one conviction in the past two to five years, if the initial charge was a felony, or more than two felony-based convictions over five years. Recruits also can get blacklisted if they have more than three moving violations in less than two years.
.......
NYPD hiring guidelines require candidates to be rejected if they have any conviction within two years, if the initial charge was a felony; more than one conviction in the past two to five years, if the initial charge was a felony, or more than two felony-based convictions over five years. Recruits also can get blacklisted if they have more than three moving violations in less than two years.
"It's all judgment calls - bad ones," said a retired cop who worked nearly a decade in the applicant processing division. "But the bosses say, 'Send 'em through. We'll catch the problem ones later.'"
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kbm6893
Member
If CC was a deterrent, then nobody would ever get mugged; after all, if your gun is concealed oyou look exactly like someone who is unarmed looks. People that look (or are) unarmed are robbed, mugged, or raped every few minutes.
And if OC was a deterrent, cops would never be shot. Banks, jewelry stores, and armored cars wouldn't be robbed, either.
See where I'm going with this? There is no proof that OC deters crime. I don't want to hear about some convicts in prison saying it. Ask the cop killers or the bank robbers why they weren't deterred. There is no proof that CC deters crime. Too many variables to pin the result on the display of a weapon.
kbm6893
Member
He should have taken the NYPD test.
March 3, 2005—Hungry for new recruits, the NYPD is hiring applicants with arrest records and shoving others through without full background checks, the Daily News has learned.In recent years, the Police Department has knowingly hired New Yorkers who have been charged with laundering drug money, assault, grand larceny and weapons possession, according to documents and sources familiar with the recruiting.
............
"We are hiring people to be cops who have no respect for the law," said former NYPD Sgt. Anthony Petroglia, who worked in the department's applicant processing division for nearly 10 years before retiring in 2002.
"We are hiring people who were charged with crimes that get you thrown off the force if you do them in uniform," he said. "All we are doing is buying trouble for the future."
.....
NYPD investigators flagged many of the questionable recruits because of their arrest records or shady past. But after a review, police brass welcomed them to the ranks of the Finest.NYPD Chief of Personnel Rafael Pineiro said the cases reviewed by The News were carefully vetted and met department standards.In each case, the recruit's arrests - which included robbery, weapons possession and assault - were dismissed or pleaded down to less serious violations."I feel comfortable with these cases," Pineiro said. "We have certain standards and we met them."
.......
NYPD hiring guidelines require candidates to be rejected if they have any conviction within two years, if the initial charge was a felony; more than one conviction in the past two to five years, if the initial charge was a felony, or more than two felony-based convictions over five years. Recruits also can get blacklisted if they have more than three moving violations in less than two years."It's all judgment calls - bad ones," said a retired cop who worked nearly a decade in the applicant processing division. "But the bosses say, 'Send 'em through. We'll catch the problem ones later.'"
You sure you wanna go down that road? The NYPD was being forced to hire more minorities to fill some diversity quota, and the FDNY is blowing them away now in that regard. First by giving women a different physical fitness entrance test, then by merging with EMS and allowing laterals to get preference to rolling over, and now a judge has ordered ALL minorities who passed the 3rd grade reading level written test to be hired over those with much higher scores, and getting rid of the physical entrance requirement all together! And even after all that, they are graduating women and minority's who still can't pass the 1.5 mile run AFTER 4 months in the academy!
And I worked with applicant processing division and you are right that the standards dropped. Political correctness and all. I nearly missed my class due to an open beer summons I got a year before I went in. And I paid the ticket the morning after I got the ticket!
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Philadelphia Patriot
Member
The difference between cops and OCers is cops will go on the offensive, pursue, and arrest bad guys. OCers want to be left alone and will stay on the defensive, not pursue but avoid bad guys, and they don't make arrests. Bad guys shoot cops because they don't want to go to jail.
kbm6893
Member
Wrong. Cops have been stone cold executed. 2 in NY right before Christmas. One in PA last fall.
And why are armored car drivers and bank guards shot again? Doesn't the sight of his weapon scare away the bad guys?
And remember the 2 cops in Vegas, I believe who were executed by the white supremacists? Then they killed an OC guy who tried to stop one of them in the Walmart. So much for not pursuing and wanting to not engage and be left alone.
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Badquaker
Member
because that's where the big money is. Risk versus reward.
There will always be exceptions. Nothing is truly black and white.
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Philadelphia Patriot
Member
The police in those incidents were specifically targeted because the shooters had issues with authority. The NYC shooting was related to police and race relations around the country. The PA incident was just a bad guy who hated cops. The police in these incidents were targeted due to their professions. Gun or no gun, they were killed because of what they represented, not because of any gun related reasons.
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kbm6893
Member
Of course. Doesn't change the fact that armed men with evil intent were not dissuaded from killing them because they were armed, just like the junkie craving Oxy isn't gonna be swayed by the pharmacist with the gun openly displayed on his hip. he's just gonna walk in, shoot the pharmacist, and get what he came for. And if there's an OC guy buying diapers for his kid in that drugstore, he's dead, too.
Philadelphia Patriot
Member
How come gun shops are very rarely robbed? I wonder if the armed employees and shoppers have anything to do with it?
kbm6893
Member
They do get robbed. Just google "gun store robbery". I remember a recent one where an elderly woman fought off the guys with a J frame. They get robbed for the same reasons banks do, risk vs reward. Clean guns go for BIG money on the street.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/people-shot-robbery-kansas-gun-store-reports-article-1.2072249
http://abc30.com/news/armed-men-mak...ll-of-guns-in-fresno-firearms-robbery/423175/
This guy went up against armed gun while he was carrying a fake gun!
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...Robbed-by-Armed-Men-Hiram-Guns-263095121.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/C...6-firearms-in-Northeast-gun-shop-robbery.html
I got bored after 30 seconds. Many more if you care to look.
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Aticus
Member
Wow this has been a fun read! After my post about what steelslaver posted I've really enjoyed this amazing philosophical discussion. I look forward to more. 
Will it ever end?
Some of us will never agree. I don't care for open carry. But my reasons why don't matter to anyone else but me. We are FREE. Free to do as we please in accordance with the law.
There is no proof that one method of carry is superior to the other. I wonder why? DUH!!! We're all different that's why!
It's time we respect each others opinion on the matter and let it rest. Read the following link. Paragraph 3. Whether we like it or not. The law is the law.
Yale Law Journal - Open Carry for All: Heller and Our Nineteenth-Century Second Amendment
Some of us will never agree. I don't care for open carry. But my reasons why don't matter to anyone else but me. We are FREE. Free to do as we please in accordance with the law.
There is no proof that one method of carry is superior to the other. I wonder why? DUH!!! We're all different that's why!
It's time we respect each others opinion on the matter and let it rest. Read the following link. Paragraph 3. Whether we like it or not. The law is the law.
Yale Law Journal - Open Carry for All: Heller and Our Nineteenth-Century Second Amendment
Philadelphia Patriot
Member
I didn't say they never get robbed, I said they rarely get robbed. Also I did google it. Some articles used the term "robbed" when they should have used the term "burglarized".
Regardless you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this. This subject has been beaten to death on here. My point is nobody is forcing anybody to open carry. We just want the option to open carry for a variety of reasons. What I don't understand is why people like you get so worked up over it. You're only argument comes down to is you're offended by it. I think that's a poor argument, plus I could care less if people are offended by it. Everybody is offended by something.
Lastly, I'm pretty sure nowhere in the 2nd amendment does it mention "the right to bear concealed arms". People have the right to bear arms whether they want to open carry or conceal carry. I don't know which is more dangerous for gun rights: the anti-2A people who are straightforward with their opinions or the gun owners who say "I'm a gun owner, but......"
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ChattanoogaPhil
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According to the story you linked it speaks to one misdemeanor conviction back in 2000 for stolen CDs and car speakers when Watkins was 17. It says that Watkins pleaded guilty and accepted an 18-month probation and deferred adjudication, according to county records. Two years later, the case was wiped from his official record after he successfully completed probation. The writer goes on to say that Watkins may be eligible now but obviously does not know.
So you translate this to a convicted felon who is banned and spread disinformation until called on it?
Like they say... if you don't have any legitimate argument just make up stuff and smear those you disagree with.
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kbm6893
Member
Maybe OC with a felony is ok
But what do I know, college dropout here.
And that is EXACTLY what Kory Watkins wanted. Constitutional carry. No permit required. He is not allowed to get his CC permit due to his criminal past, so if he gets OC without permit, he can carry. And he has stated that multiple times.
Wow... Interesting spiteful comeback to a old joke.
At least MY municiple co-workers could take it as intended. We Always had each other's backs. Looks like y'all don't... but I'm not surprised.
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Masters in Disinformation
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