Ohio Police Encounter - Notification

[oldman45]

What If I disarmed you momentarily? Since we're in the business of comprimise, I'll give you my gun when you give me yours. I don't beleive anyone has the right to disarm me unless I have commited and infraction.

Again, many here jump to conclusions. If you are pulled over, you have or pretty much assured to have committed an infraction. Officers have way too much to do than pull people over for the fun of it.

I spend my day in court arguing for one side or another. Sometimes I testify for the good guy and some time I testify for the bad guy but in ALL cases someone did something wrong. Being pulled over for a tail light is a smoke screen for these guys saying they did nothing and should not give up their firearms for any reason. That is BS. Pulling one over for a light being out is nothing more than checking their papers and advising them of the light issue before sending them on their way. Most of the time they do not even get out of their car.

But I suppose those here that feel they should not give up their gun or notify might want to watch a few officer being shot videos. There are hundreds out there.

I will admit that there are rouge cops. I know a few but even those do not deserve to be shot by a felon because they did not want to remove his firearm under quesitoning. Nor does the citizen need to be shot for an innocent act appearing to be going for a gun.

Maybe these guys feeling their rights are being intruded upon should work a few nights alone on rural roads with help an hour away. All the officer is doing is protecting everyone involved.

 

[ladder13]

I'm stayin' outta this one, made enough of a fool of myself in another thread.

 

[27145]

Who do you guy's prefer, Ginger or Maryanne?

 

[blujax01]

Oldman45 if I read your intent correctly, I do not think police in Ohio are within their rights to disarm a citizen because they "are already lawbreakers, otherwise they would not have been pulled over" or words to that effect. I agreed with you that notification is a good idea because for instance, I do want the Officer to know that when I reach for my Registration he may well see a gun and should not be alarmed.
But to disarm me simply because I have a weapon? Sorry, after I complied - which I would do - you and I would be in Civil Court on that one. And I'd fly Cajunlawyer up here to be my Man.

 

[cshoff]

I'm stayin' outta this one, made enough of a fool of myself in another thread.

lol............I'm with you. I said my piece in this one. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Lost Lake]

Fantastic ideas here, I have 'liked' so many thoughtful posts and I was tempted to like a lot more but I already look like a schmoozer...

I don't mind declaring I have a gun on me or in my vehicle. I do object to having my gun taken away. If I were a threat to society, I wouldn't have my permit. I think an officer should only request a gun if he has reason to believe he may be endangered by the citizen having the gun. I think this may be in cases that a legal carrying person has become enraged, is intoxicated, or the officer is about to tell him the price of the ticket he's getting

 

[Red Tex]

There's simply NO excuse for that behavior

Bad Police Encounter
Hopefully this will finally kill the requirement to notify in Ohio.

This is at least the second time police have abused this requirement here. They can't be trusted with it and it needs to be taken away from them.

If those clowns who called themselves cops knew the encounter was being recorded, the only thing I can come up with that makes any sense at all is that the cops must have been on drugs of some sort.

 

[Engine 21]

I'm stayin' outta this one, made enough of a fool of myself in another thread.

Me too. Enough for a day or so.

 

[27145]

Me too. Enough for a day or so.

Why? I make a fool out of myself everytime I post, but I keep pluggin' away.

 

[cmort666]

Officers have way too much to do than pull people over for the fun of it.

And yet they still do it...

 

[cmort666]

Both, at the same time. Seriously, just watched the video, that "officer" needs to be taken behind the woodshed, & given an attitude adjustment. So wrong in so many ways............Here's a link, if no one has posted it:


It's good that the video was finally released.

If that cop EVER uses his firearm, justified or not, he's going to be second guessed seven ways to Sunday. I'd just LOVE to be in the courtroom to see him skinned alive by a defendant's... or plaintiff's counsel.

He's never going to live this down, and I'm going to be one of the people making sure of it.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Again, many here jump to conclusions. If you are pulled over, you have or pretty much assured to have committed an infraction. Officers have way too much to do than pull people over for the fun of it.

I spend my day in court arguing for one side or another. Sometimes I testify for the good guy and some time I testify for the bad guy but in ALL cases someone did something wrong. Being pulled over for a tail light is a smoke screen for these guys saying they did nothing and should not give up their firearms for any reason. That is BS. Pulling one over for a light being out is nothing more than checking their papers and advising them of the light issue before sending them on their way. Most of the time they do not even get out of their car.

But I suppose those here that feel they should not give up their gun or notify might want to watch a few officer being shot videos. There are hundreds out there.

I will admit that there are rouge cops. I know a few but even those do not deserve to be shot by a felon because they did not want to remove his firearm under quesitoning. Nor does the citizen need to be shot for an innocent act appearing to be going for a gun.

Maybe these guys feeling their rights are being intruded upon should work a few nights alone on rural roads with help an hour away. All the officer is doing is protecting everyone involved.

I'm stateing that I don't know the cop either. I've had a cop brandish his sidearm on me for talking about firearms as a part of a report in the hallways of my highschool(turns out he hadn't checked in with the front desk bringing him up to two felonies in my state) I feel uncomfortible with someone with his own gun telling me I can't have mine while we're talking "for both our saftey". The second amendment wasnt put in place just so we could hunt and defend against muggers.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

And yet they still do it...

I've had the Lt. of the nightshift for one of our local departments tell me they almost never pull you over just because you were speeding. They really are trying to find something else out, heck he told me that they ran plates because they were bored. When this is comeing from the highest ranking guy you get without wakeing someone up, I tend to trust him that they do indeed have time to pull us over for fun.

 

[armsmaster270]

As a Retired Police Officer I hope they really break it off in the officers involved. Their handling of the stop should get them fired.

 

[cmort666]

As a Retired Police Officer I hope they really break it off in the officers involved. Their handling of the stop should get them fired.

I suspect that it won't, but it'll cripple their ability to work. EVERY use of force by either will come under an electron microscope. They'll become lawsuit magnets.

 

[cmort666]

This is racing through the gun boards like wildfire.

When it INEVITABLY hits the political blog sites, the cop's life and career are OVER. There won't be any place on the face of the earth where he can go to escape it, certainly not and work as a cop. He could move to the most distant mountain village in the Philippines and people will spit when they see him coming.

 

[walnutred]

You kidding Cmort, they probably already have received job offers from cities like Chicago, New Orleans, the TSA and a couple in NJ.

 

[oldman45]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

 

[walnutred]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

I think the safest place for my handgun is secured in my holster. Having a stranger handle a loaded firearm that they most likely are NOT trained on in my close vicinity does not improve anyones safety. Why do YOU feel my holstered firearm presents a threat to a LEO. At that point he has run my plates and he has my drivers license, so my ID is pretty well established. Will my 50 + years of behavior suddenly change causing me to shoot a LEO over a minor traffic ticket? You honestly think I'm going to trade a few points on my drivers license and a $100 ticket for an almost certain felony conviction and probably life in prison by shooting a LEO during a simple traffic stop?

 

[Engine 21]

OOOPs

Just as I thought - unbalanced and unprofessional and soon to unemployed. The city's legal beagles well know the liability they now have because of these officers actions both criminally and civil. The Risk Management attorneys have to be bouncing off the walls. Time to batten down the hatches Canton Ohio.

Who wants to bet this gets national media coverage?

 

[hatt]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

What are you scared of with an honest citizen having a holstered gun? Why are you unwilling to accept that the honest citizen has a gun for the same reason you have a gun?

 

[cmort666]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety?

Are you kidding? Have you watched the video?

I wouldn't feel safe around THAT cop unless I had my CAR15 and several loaded thirty round magazines.

Having a strange person monkeying around with my firearm, which he may very well not know how to safely handle (and which others' experiences say he probably won't) doesn't make me "safe" in ANY way.

Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

I'm one of those sensitive types who gets "in fear for your life" when somebody THREATENS TO MURDER ME.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Based on what he says in the video, he's more likely to SHOOT me with it.

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

Will I get to threaten to murder people and then arrest them for not meeting a statutory requirement that I INTENTIONALLY prevent them from meeting?

 

[redlevel]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

I had a brief career as a rural Deputy/City PD a long time ago. I have stopped a few cars at 3 in the morning, with the only help 30 miles away. I assumed every one of them was armed.

I have to say, too, that you seem obsessed with an officer shooting someone reaching for a gun. What's with that? Sure, you have to be careful, but that is the nature of the work. It was the nature of my work as a teacher, too. I had to deal with people on at least a weekly basis that I suspected were armed, without even a fraction of the authority an officer has.

Here are a couple of reasons I am glad the 4th amendment is there, even if some officers seem to ignore it. In each of these instances, if the author is telling the whole story, officers committed gross violations of the 4th amendment. If you request it, I will PM you a link to the posts.

Around 10PM last night I went to make a few deposits at the Chase ATM on Baker Rd so I could post a payment to my credit card that night, carrying my G19 in a MTAC Minotaur, being that I was depositing cash and three different checks I turned my car off, and my lights. Finished my deposit and cranked the car back up, but forgot to turn my lights back on, pulled out on Jiles Rd and noticed my lights were off, so I turned them on, then I get lit up by CCPD, pulled into the Kroger parking lot at the corner of Cherokee/Jiles, comes up to the window and goes through the whole schbeel of "do you know why I pulled you over, have you been drinking, etc, etc", and requested my license, which I produced. Then came the question I was waiting for, "Are there any weapons in the car?"; I said yes, told him what and where, and his demeanor changes, he takes a literal step back, says to keep my hands on the steering wheel and goes to his car. About 5 minutes pass and I noticed 2 more CCPD cars pulling up, he returns to the window and tells me to unlock the passenger door, I do, then he asks if it's loaded, I tell him loaded and chambered. Another officer opens the door and takes my pistol out of my holster, and walks back to his car, at this point there's another CCPD car behind me, the officer who initially pulled me over says to sit tight while they run the serial number, which takes a surprisingly long time, then I get my pistol back in pieces from the officer who took it, and the ammo from the officer who pulled me over. I was then given a verbal warning for my having my lights off when I pulled out of the bank, and told to drive safe, being that this is the first time I've been pulled over for any reason, I wasn't thinking anything besides compliance with their wishes, but in retrospect, I'm fairly upset that I was treated like a criminal. Is there anything I can do?
-----------------------------------------------


I figured it would happen eventually, living in a city not known to be the most liberty minded, and it did. I was hassled by Columbus PD for lawfully carrying a weapon.

I was on my way home last night at about 2:15am riding one of my motorcycles and openly carrying a Glock in a Serpa holster. A Columbus PD car was behind me for about a mile and pulled me over as I went through an intersection.

I got off my bike and put it on the stand, removed my helmet and turned around to face the officer with my hands clasped in front of me.

Officer Podges: "Sir, keep your hands where I can see them."

My hands were already where he could see them, but to show that I had no intent to escalate the situation, I held my hands to chest level with my palms facing forward.

Podges: "You can put your hands down. I pulled you over because I saw you were carrying a gun."

Me: "Yes sir."

No, I didn't ask if I was free to go, as he had pulled me over and it was obvious that I was not. Nor did I ask why, as he had already informed me before I could ask.

Podges: "Do you have a permit to carry that?"

"I do."

I know that a GWL is not required to carry in your vehicle, but at the moment I was standing by the side of the road, and not in or on my vehicle, although I was only standing there because officer Podges had stopped me while I was carrying about my own lawful business...

He asked me for my "permit" and for my driver's license. I told him that my wallet was under the seat and that I had to reach in my pocket to get the keys. He agreed and as I turned to put the key into the seat release he grabbed the grip of my Glock and tugged. I stood up straight to face him as he asked "Is it okay if I remove this for my safety?"

Me: "No sir."

Podges: "For my safety."

Me: "I do not consent to you taking my weapon."

He stood there for several moments staring at me with his fingers still on the grip of my gun and finally removed his hand. I'm not sure why he felt that attempting to remove a weapon with which he is unfamiliar from a holster he does not understand (he was attempting to pull it from a RH Serpa with the fingers of his LEFT hand without pushing the index finger release) was safer for either of us.
I also found it odd that he didn't seem to understand such a common holster, as most of the Columbus PD officers I have seen were carrying what appears to be Serpa level 3 holsters. I couldn't tell what he was carrying because I was facing his spotlight the entire time.

He then asked me to remove it myself and place it under the seat, and I agreed. In hindsight, I don't think I would do that again, as it made me nervous to touch my weapon while I was clearly detained, but hindsight is always better. Oh, well.

I handed him my driver's license and GWL as he had requested, and he went back to his car, shouting over his shoulder that he didn't understand why I had such a problem. My inner smart-*** didn't come out (probably for the better) and he disappeared. I suppose he was checking my tag, insurance, running my driver's license to see if I had warrants or something. I don't know.

He came back after several minutes and as he handed my licenses back he told me that he knew that it was my right to carry like that, but if I continue to do so, I will probably keep getting pulled over.

I told him to have a good morning and he left as I was putting my license up and returning my holster to my waist.

I intend to continue carrying just the way that I was, and will look forward to speaking with officer Podges again. Except for violating my rights by stopping me without reason and attempting to take my pistol without my consent, and delaying me for 10-15 minutes when I had somewhere to be, he was somewhat cordial. Other than the whole unlawful harassing me thing, you know.

I am going to send an open records request to the Columbus PD for a copy of the dash cam video or voice recording if it is available, and I intend to speak with a supervisor of officer Podges and explain to him that I don't think it is fair to be hassled by police when I have not violated the laws, nor do I think it is fair (or legal) to continue to stop me without reason, as officer Podges warned me he would do.

Does anyone have insight as to whom I should address the open records request or how to find the supervisor of officer Podges? I wish I was as versed with the individual laws and cases that support my right to carry without being hassled as some of you on here. Jones v. Florida?

 

[cmort666]

Who wants to bet this gets national media coverage?

Local media have already picked it up.

It'll probably make Drudge Report.

I'm waiting for Glenn Beck to talk about it.

Update: Hotair.com has picked it up. The cop is toast, even if they don't fire him. He'll never be effective in his job (if he ever was) again.

 

[oldman45]

I think the safest place for my handgun is secured in my holster. Having a stranger handle a loaded firearm that they most likely are NOT trained on in my close vicinity does not improve anyones safety. Why do YOU feel my holstered firearm presents a threat to a LEO. At that point he has run my plates and he has my drivers license, so my ID is pretty well established. Will my 50 + years of behavior suddenly change causing me to shoot a LEO over a minor traffic ticket? You honestly think I'm going to trade a few points on my drivers license and a $100 ticket for an almost certain felony conviction and probably life in prison by shooting a LEO during a simple traffic stop?

Armed people (criminals, intoxicated, those upset over family or other issues and many more) shoot officers all to often. Stand in front of me and see if I cannot draw and fire before you can reach your gun. Something may be said that sets off a rage. The person knows how far they may carry it but not the officer. It becomes an unexpected event. As I said, there are hundreds of videos where officers were shot during a routine traffic stop and not all the shooters had prior records but they all had guns.

 

[cmort666]

Armed people (criminals, intoxicated, those upset over family or other issues and many more) shoot officers all to often.

And all too often, cops like Alvin Weems and Andreas Mehserle senselessly shoot citizens for no good reason. Logically, we have the right to disarm the police during an encounter, RIGHT?

Why ON EARTH would I feel "at my ease" when a cop like the one in the video is armed?

 

[walnutred]

As I said, there are hundreds of videos where officers were shot during a routine traffic stop and not all the shooters had prior records but they all had guns.

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

 

[cmort666]

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

You have to wonder why they just didn't tell the cop they had a gun in the first place...

 

[hatt]

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

Just like criminals do when they see a gun free zone sign. They should put cams on those signs so we can lol at all the criminals running away in fear after seeing the sign.

 

[JamesArthur60]

You've posted other anti-cop actions in the past on this forum. For one living in a nice suburb, I'm surprised you have so many issues with the police. Regarding this particular individual, unless you were there during the stop in question, how do you know the facts of the case? Do you believe everything written on the internet? Why get so upset. It was allegedly posted by the persons defense attorney. The attorney wasn't even there. He has to argue and justify the statements made by his paying client. Two sides to every story. Except if one has an anti-cop attitude I suppose.