ONCE AGAIN,GLOBAL WARMING REARS ITS UGLY HEAD

I have friends under two feet of October snow who will appreciate this... once their power comes back on that is.... :)
Glad you enjoyed it, Drew, and hope your friends do, too!

I am in favor of everybody lightening up, and enjoying life. I like the joy, the good fun, in that video. Exemplified by the cavorting dogs.

I got no requirements everybody got to see AGW, or anything else, my way, and just don't want folks leaning on me to see it their way (especially if they have a hand in my hip pocket)! :)

Life's too short entirely to get stressed about what other folks choose to believe...
 
So this guy says global warming is real but not proven to be "man made" so we should curb emissions just to be safe. No we shouldn't. Killing our economy just to prevent what they can't prove is happening doesn't cut it with me.
Why don't we just tax the sun instead? Or sue God for putting this chunk of dirt so close to the sun.
There is no "proof" that will convince everybody. He never says that global warming is "not proven to be "man made". Cutting back on consumption of fossil fuels isn't exactly "killing our economy". Our government has been telling us for years that we need to decrease our dependance on foreign fuel. Irreversibly damaging the atmosphere and/or environment just for the sake of short-term profits by oil companies will cause way more damaging, long-term effects than asking people to conserve energy.
Gee, I guess this means the evil Koch brothers just turned out to be a couple guys who funded a study and the scientist came up with his own conclusions. Imagine that! And if roscoguy thinks this guy was a "professional skeptic" whose conclusions we should ignore because the Koch brothers hired him, why should we put value on this scientist's opinions now? And doesn't this make pro man made global warming scientists "professional GW witch doctors"? Or is this mythology just a one way street?
No, it means that I was saying that this scientist was funded by the Kochs as opposed to any group of "tree-huggers". I never suggested or implied that his opinions should be ignored. I'm completely confused on your interpretation of my post. :confused: Would it have helped if I had said that he was a skeptical professional instead? If so, mea culpa.

P.S. - handejector, I apologize for my slip up re: the rules about copyrighted material. It won't happen again. :o
 
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Glad you enjoyed it, Drew, and hope your friends do, too!

Life's too short entirely to get stressed about what other folks choose to believe...

So True Arlo, So True...

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to the hardware store to buy some more of those $15, poison filled, curly-Q light bulbs... :)
 
There is no doubt in my mind that the climate in my part of the world is warmer than it used to be. (But I also notice on the evening news that the record high temperatures for many individual days occurred in the 1930s.) And I do not doubt reports of a general warming.

I DO doubt that we greedy Americans and our SUVs are a major cause of warming. As said, we sure weren't affecting things some hundreds of years ago when a mild climate and long growing seasons made it possible for more people to get off the farm and eventually industrialize.

If you want to know the reason for all the "studies" promoting reductions in US production, you need look no further than the forum here on gun control. As often said, gun control isn't about guns, it is about control. Likewise limiting greenhouse gas emissions isn't about the greenhouse effect, it is about limitations.
 
Man adapts and exploits conditions to his favor quite well. Slightly warmer average temperatures might bring longer growing seasons. Warmer temperatures might result in more evaporation and precipitation (fresh water). With a growing human population, longer growing seasons and more fresh water might not necessarily be such a bad thing. Though, I guess it would be difficult to raise funds for the Global Fight Against More Food and Water. Please forget I mentioned it...

In the 1970's we had an impending ice age crisis. Today we have a global warming catastrophe headed our way. We seemed to have survived the ice age... keep hope alive.
 
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I have hope that one day, all children will be taught to read and reason. That all children will, one day, be able to discern what can be possible and what is total hogwash. That one day, all pontificators will be held up to ridicule and be held responsible for the trash they talk. One day....

I could not agree more...
 
I always allow myself to be pulled into the Area 51 of topics around here. Let's just call it the "P" word. But it's impossible to do with this subject so all I have to say is, "So, how 'bout those Cardinals, huh?!"
 
The science is solid though the models less than perfect. And no one who understands the issues calls it global warming any more for exactly this reason. Climate change affects different localities differently. There is almost universal consensus among climate scientists that the climate is changing, the legitimate debates are about the cause and whether we can stop it from happening.

Thanks so much for making this very valid point. To be sure, there is room for debate about why our climate is changing, and the extent to which we humans might have contributed to it, but the fact that our climate is changing, for whatever reason, cannot be denied.

I am so sick and tired of scientific issues being morphed into political litmus tests.
 
I have hope that one day, all children will be taught to read and reason. That all children will, one day, be able to discern what can be possible and what is total hogwash. That one day, all pontificators will be held up to ridicule and be held responsible for the trash they talk. One day....
Tripe. Perfectly well educated people are using reason and logic in order to understand that just because the earth's climate is variable and cyclical (there's a shocker for you!) does not mean that humans are the cause or the saviors. Like Wyatt, I just don't agree with doing irreparable damage to the global economies over CONCLUSIONS that are politically motivated.
 
C'mon fella's, global warming can be proven!
All we have to do is record the temperature today, 20 degrees above here, then record the temperature on July 4th next year, subtract & see the difference, bingo. Global Warming proven!!!!!!
Frank
 
C'mon fella's, global warming can be proven!
All we have to do is record the temperature today, 20 degrees above here, then record the temperature on July 4th next year, subtract & see the difference, bingo. Global Warming proven!!!!!!
Frank

That aint fair. It seems too similar to the method I use to prove Global Cooling.

Global Cooling is a fact; Mr. Frank.
 
CFC's and leaded gas are both very bad things...we could be baking right now from the loss of ozone had we not discovered what CFCs do before China emerged from being a third world country. Who knows how many cases of cancer could have been prevented by removing lead from gas at a much earlier date? Changing the type of Freon didn't ruin the global economy, and ditching leaded gas may have left the motorheads a little ticked...but they got over it. I'm all for reducing our dependence on foreign oil. I go out of my way to buy my gas from an American company. I was involved in Op. Enduring Freedom, so I'm looking forward to the day those guys might have a choice to eat oil or sand. But industrial power consumption and coal-fired power plants should be a concern as well. We can sit on a computer and debate the merits or detractions of change, but do you think anybody could have prevented the construction of the Hoover Dam? Some of the best changes in this country's history happened when people just had to roll with them. Perhaps this is that same sort of change.
 
Tripe. Perfectly well educated people are using reason and logic in order to understand that just because the earth's climate is variable and cyclical (there's a shocker for you!) does not mean that humans are the cause or the saviors. Like Wyatt, I just don't agree with doing irreparable damage to the global economies over CONCLUSIONS that are politically motivated.

I don't believe it's a shocker for me. I don't recall saying one way or the other, the causes of climatic change being the result of humans. What I did say was that most of the tripe I've been reading is the regurgitation of the pontification of others with a decided personal agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with science.
 
I've watched documentaries in which scientific types have taken very deep core sample of packed snow & ice. They have noted an apparent correlation between concentrations of CO2 & temperature fluctuations. To be sure, there are some natural causes for higher CO2 levels & IIRC volcanic eruptions are one of them. Even so, if you accept the correlation, it's nearly inescapable that man has contributed to higher CO2 levels. Hummers are neither the only cause or even the main cause, but everything we do that adds to the problem could be looked at in order to see if it could/should be changed.

Other contributors are things like burning down huge sections of rainforest in South America, which not adds CO2 but also removes a natural consumer of CO2. Oil- & coal-fired energy production also would have to make the list.

Given that the US is number 1 on the list of the world's largest consumers of petroleum, a large portion of which is imported, it almost seems to be a no-brainer for us to try to use less oil products. Especially since being able to drive farther than the next gas station keeps money in my pocket. (Please note: No-brainer was NOT meant to be offensive, I just don't like "win-win situation"... :D)

Maybe we didn't exactly create the whole problem, but change has to start somewhere. I seriously doubt that China is going to curb their appetite for oil in the near future, but if there is pressure brought to bear by other nations that are trying to reduce their levels of pollution, maybe they'll slowly look for alternatives as well.
 
The climate is going to change, it has changed over and over and will again.

Yes Sir! How do they explain all the ice ages the earth has had...they started, they ended...pretty dramatic climactic changes there...and before man's big carbon footprint too!
 
First, I am a no-kidding, graduate degree atmospheric physicist, so I almost never post in these threads.
WHY? Because human-caused climate change is junk science, but it is also part of the new-age religion. Facts don't matter, only political correctness.
Some of my associates are grant-whores who will "study" anything if enough money is offered, and chase the latest fad. No matter if their reports are so ambiguous that they don't really prove anything, like the advocate post above who referred to the Greenland ice core studies correlating temperature and carbon dioxide, but left out the greatest effect was thousands of years ago when man's carbon dioxide contribution was mostly farts and campfires.
Never mind that 3 professional state climatologists have been fired for releasing actual data because it did not support the governor's political agenda in OR, NC, and VA.
Never mind that England's leading "climate professor" is disgraced internationally for creating false climate records to please his political masters. Yes, you heard right, when the facts don't support the political agenda, they make up new facts. Numerous articles published and widely repeated have "corrected" data put in place of real data, like the well-known "corrections" to NY Central Park Records, because the old temperatures should have been colder. That's right, they knocked several degrees off the 19th century temp records taken with actual mercury thermometers.

So don't waste your time presenting facts to the true believers.
They know humans are in control of the climate.
Never mind that after the last ice age the sea level rose 200 feet in the 11,000 years before humans built the first town, because sea level has risen 2 feet since we started burning coal, so to them that proves man is causing the earth to warm and the sea to rise.

It's not science, it's politics and political power.
 
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...human-caused climate change is junk science, but it is also part of the new-age religion.

Religion or religious fervor? Yes. New? Ha! Hardly. Rather, it is only the newest home of the zealots*. Even in my lifetime, a scant 40 years, I recall the previous building which housed them: Nuclear Fear.

Like much real estate, a building's value is often "location, location, location" and once it became apparent that Nuclear Fear was in an ineffective neighborhood, they began a lengthy move to a new address: Anthropogenic Global Warming. Whether the new neighborhood is really better than the old has yet to be seen, but Nuclear Fear is now a bombed-out (pun!) shell of itself. What is not widely remembered is that it was not the original location. No, it was merely one in a lengthy succession of addresses in a variety of neighborhoods. There may come a day, and that day may be sooner than thought, when yet another address is required. Exactly where is not yet known, but a search through the history books shows it will likely be a new building at a previously-used location.

Edit: I forgot to say that the Nuclear Fear building was recently renovated. They sold the naming rights to a new multinational conglomerate: Climate Change.

First, I am a no-kidding, graduate degree atmospheric physicist...

I am a no-kidding, bachelor degree mechanical engineer... No, wait. I do actually have the degree, but I chose to do something else professionally that pays more. Regardless, one of the things thermodynamics drills into a fellow is how to set a system boundary. If you can account for what crosses the system boundary, you can compute some pretty important stuff. Here we are several pages into a discussion about global warming and the word "sun" has seldom been uttered. Perhaps longhair is more correct than he realizes; perhaps its omission is a form of regurgitation. Talking about energy retention in a system with a sole energy source, while omitting (wittingly or otherwise) that sole source, strikes me as *very* poor science. That energy source has its own cycles and an accounting is required.

So now I will show my cards. I can accept we are in a warm period, but I am unconvinced as to its cause, and until somebody can accurately account for the large ball of fusing hydrogen 93 million miles away, I will remain unconvinced.

* I don't intend to give zealots a bad name by assocation with the AGW crowd. I have a religion, one that requires me to accept absolute truth to the exclusion of all others. In that vein, I am as much a "zealot" as anybody else, but unlike the AGW zealots, I wouldn't deign to tell you how you must believe or act based on beliefs I have chosen. I'm comfortable at my OWN address, and I don't need to transform the neighborhood through force so that everybody believes as I do.
 
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Especially since being able to drive farther than the next gas station keeps money in my pocket.

Which, according to the Nobel Laureate, part-time economist, full-time political hack, and overall bearded quack Paul Krugman, merely exacerbates our economic woes. You are supposed to spend all of your money and save none of it because saving ruins the economy. He'll get back to you with the approved list of things on which you may spend the money you don't spend at the gas station...
 
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