OOPS! Reloaded Too Many Times

Why would you dump the powder in the flower bed, and toss all the bullets? The powder should be perfectly fine and you could use the bullets for practice ammo, if they are hunting rounds....

Agreed. Assuming you properly documented the load and powder lot used you can reuse the powder (mixing lots can be a little iffy).

Similarly, if you use a kinetic bullet puller with ample padding in the end to catch the bullet without damage, or properly use a good collet bullet puller, you won’t damage the bullets and they can be reused. The primer can also be decapped and while I would not reuse it in hunting or self defense ammo they work fine for range ammo.
 
I’ve not heard the notion of discarding brass after five firings but I wonder if the responsible person didn’t know how to maintain his brass, or maybe he was in the business of selling reloading brass? :D That’s a common recommendation in a military-style rifle like an HK91 or an M1-A, but in a bolt action rifle operating at normal pressure, I’d expect to get at least twice that much use.

John Linebaugh once told me he had reloaded a single .416 Remington case twenty-times to check the his die setting and see how the case lasted. That got me thinking, and I made a similar experiment with some old Remington-brand .222 brass that I know with certainty I have had since the early ‘70s. I used the same RCBS die and setting I’ve always used, and the same load. I randomly pulled out fifteen of the Remingtons, annealed and trimmed them, and then reloaded them seven-times. They were fired for function and accuracy at each loading and nothing unusual was noted. They were still in apparently good shape when I lost interest in the experiment and quit. I’d guess those cases were reloaded at least twenty-times, possibly more.

Good brass life is a function of many factors. Causing it to fail prematurely can take only one.

The delayed blow back roller locked operating system used in the HK91 is very sensitive to total recoil impulse. Get it wrong and the fluted chamber can so deeply flute the case to make it almost unreloadable.

Cases fired in the M1A will eventually stretch to the point they will show signs of incipient head separation. That’s particularly the case with M1As with chambers cut for 7.62x51 NATO given the more generous chamber dimensions and the increased amount of stretch that occurs as the shoulder is bumped back more with each resizing.

It’s normally evident as a bright ring around or partially around the case body about 1/3 the way up the case at the top of the web inside the case. It’s not uncommon however to skip straight from normally looking to a partial head separation with a crack and dark powder staining partly around the case.

On rare occasions you will get a complete head separation. However in my experience with M1A over the last 35 years I’ve never had a fully separated case fail to completely eject and it’s never resulted in uncontrolled gas escaping into the action as the case head still seals the chamber.

Consequently I shoot them until they show signs of impending separation. Given that I load them to M852 target ammo velocities (168 gr SMK at 2550 fps) with comparatively low pressures, cases last a lot longer than five reloads.
 
FWIW, I have seen people recommending annealing of the case mouths of bottle-neck cartridges to extend the number of times they can be reloaded.
I have seen equipment for annealing them advertised for sale as well.
As I understand it, the bottle-necked cases tend to become brittle due to work-hardening as they are resized, and annealing the mouths of the cases begore reloading them reduces that brittleness - allowing them to be resized/reloaded several more times.
When you look at bottle-necked factory ammo - like.223 and 5.56 rounds, it is easy to see the discoloration from the ammo manufacturers annealing the cases before loading them.

In cartridge where the most common end of life failure is a neck crack, annealing can help extend the case life. However in a case like the .223 Rem / 5.56x45 where the most common failure is an incipient head separation, it’s a waste of time.

Some precision shooters will anneal cases because they feel it provides more even neck tension and greater accuracy.

My days of anal retentive loading practices such as neck trimming, annealing, case indexing, etc are long gone. I’m happy with a 3/4 MOA load that I can churn out on my Dillon 550B using Whidden floating tool heads with no more case prep than a one time flash hole uniforming operation. I do test the complete rounds for run out and straighten the few that come in over .0015”. I can load about 110 per hour with hand checked powder charge weights and that allows for more time at the range.

I’ve found shooting more and improving your ability to read the wind accurately under real world conditions is far more important than an extra 1/2 MOA of accuracy.
 
Long story short, I reloaded these cases, fired them, polished them up and then inspected them afterwards.
Out of 70 I had 14 with cracked case necks.
Trashed the whole spent batch and now I'm going through those that are ready to shoot.
Looks like the plants are getting some nitrogen today.

Could be annealing the cases might get you a few more reloads.
 
Why would you dump the powder in the flower bed, and toss all the bullets? The powder should be perfectly fine and you could use the bullets for practice ammo, if they are hunting rounds....

Honestly guys l had polished the spent cases and was getting ready to reload them when I discovered about 14 cracked necks.
That's when I decided to check the unfired rounds in this batch and only found cracked necks in about 6 or 7 of them.
To me it just wasn't worth the effort so I just got rid of all this stuff because I have plenty of more ammo that is in good shape and I couldn't be bothered annealing cases in an attempt to extend case life.
 
14 cracked necks out of 70 cases is a lot. I'd toss them all also.

I have .30-06 cases that have been fired a lot more than 5 times but they are fired in a bolt action with moderate power loads. I don't think there is a good rule of thumb as there are many variables.
 
On a lighter note I spent some time in front of the TV set replacing the tarp on this target stand because the other was shot up and shredded.
Of course this has nothing to do with the subject at hand but I like posting pictures of my work anyway. :D
 

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Dumping smokeless powder on plants gives them no nitrogen. Smokeless powder does not dissolve. I always wonder how that myth started.
 
Many years ago as a kid I found myself in possession of a tiny rose plant in a drinking glass.
So I stuck the thing in the ground in front of the house and it was alive but stayed tiny for years.
At some point I added the remainder of a one pound bottle of IMR 4895 and the thing became a beautiful tree in no time!
...who knows. :)
 
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I have my own little shooting spot about 3/4 of a mile walking distance in the woods from my place.
I don't want to turn that place into a trash dump because it's somebody else's Christmas tree farm.
So I police up my spent brass and plastic bottles when I'm done.
I may have enough brass to get a banana split at Dairy Queen now. :D
And I love posting pictures. :cool:
 

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I've never had a case fail radially in front of the web, and a lot of sources say that is a place to watch. It's always been a longitudinally cracked body or neck.
5 reloadings seems kind of low, in general. I've had 22 Hornet necks and bodies split after just a few loadings.
 
I have a couple hundred 222 Remington cases that are at going on 60 years old. Inherited them from my father. Have no recorded of how many times they've been reloaded but I'd take a guess at at least 10. They are used in two different rifles: a 722 Remington and a Sako Riihimaki.
Dad never had a case tumbler so it hasn't been until recently that they have been cleaned other than by the old lube wipe on/wipe off method. They also have only been neck sized.
Every now and then I'll see a split neck, maybe one in 50 cases, but it has never been a serious issue. We don't shoot either rifle as much anymore and since I have found that age can contribute to brass failure, I do plan to wet tumble and anneal them to prolong life.

John
 
I have quite a few 222 cases shot over 10 times. Bur I don't shoot top end high velocity loads. I have never had a cracked neck on one...26-06?? oh yes. but they ere usually top end. 220 Swift too. 22 Hornets crack easily
 
Based on my 47 years of handloading experience covering a large number of different cartridges it really depends on:
- the cartridge;
- the operating pressure; and
- how the case is sized (neck versus partial versus full versus small base).

Straight wall rifle cartridges are much like pistol and revolver cases that exhibit almost no case stretch. Reload them until the case mouth cracks.

Cases with tapered case walls and shallow shoulders stretch a lot. The .22 Hornet is a good example of a case that has a comparatively short case life. Case life gets even shorter if you start upping the pressure and load for velocity rather than accuracy. They usually develop spider cracks in the middle of the case body.

However if you blow a new .22 hornet case out to .22 K- Hornet with parallel case walls and a sharp shoulder case life is significantly improved. The same is true with most of the Ackley Improved rounds compared to their parent cartridges.

Neck sizing a case will greatly improve its life as the shoulder isn’t set back and it doesn’t repeatedly stretch with each successive firing. You may occasionally have to bump the shoulder back, but doing so the absolute minimum for easy chambering will again prolong case life. And in a bolt action with plenty of camming force, bumping it back isn’t required.

Partial sizing, full length and small base resizing all work the case progressively more and will shorten case life.

——-

In short someone saying you should discard cases after five firings as a rule of thumb, either doesn’t understand all the factors involved, or is being overly conservative and wasting a lot of brass.

5 times is my maximum for .308 in an M1A. You need to bump that shoulder substantially for reliable operation. The action is inherently violent and case head separation, not split necks, is the primary concern. RCBS makes an X-Die sizer that requires less trimming, so it should extend the brass life. I just never cared to test it.

.45-70 brass lasts me until I lose it.

I am not sure about cartridges like .270 Winchester shot in one, dedicated rifle. I used to neck size only until cases were difficult to chamber, then did a full resizing. More recently I’ve been bumping the shoulder only .002” with a full length sizing die. My sense is that these cases could go a lot further before annealing or tossing them.
 
5 times is my maximum for .308 in an M1A. You need to bump that shoulder substantially for reliable operation. The action is inherently violent and case head separation, not split necks, is the primary concern. RCBS makes an X-Die sizer that requires less trimming, so it should extend the brass life. I just never cared to test it.

.45-70 brass lasts me until I lose it.

I am not sure about cartridges like .270 Winchester shot in one, dedicated rifle. I used to neck size only until cases were difficult to chamber, then did a full resizing. More recently I’ve been bumping the shoulder only .002” with a full length sizing die. My sense is that these cases could go a lot further before annealing or tossing them.

It really depends on how your M1 or M1A is chambered, .7.62x 51 versus .308 Win, the brass you are using, and how you are resizing them.

For example I had an M1 in 7.62x51 and the generous chamber dimensions really stretched the brass on the initial firing, which all by itself shortened case life.

I used older military match brass exclusively (as the older LC match shared the thicker case web of the M80 brass), and kept that brass separate and dedicated to that particular rifle. It meant I could just partially size it without bumping the shoulder back and still get reasonable case life (around 7).

The M1 and M1A have a great deal of energy when the slide closes and will bump the shoulder back any small amount that might be required.

When using once fired M80 brass I have encountered some brass fired in an obviously excessive head spaced chamber where even small base resizing will not produce a case that will chamber in an M1A. I just throw it away, and as a general rule avoid mil surp once fired M80 brass.



My Springfield M1As and the barrels I have put on them over the years have always had chambers cut for .308 Win. On those rifles I will either full length resize or small base resize, depending on what gave the best accuracy. With the military match brass case life was very good with FL resizing and still ok (around 7) with small base resizing.

More recently I have used commercial Federal Gold Medal Match or newer military match brass which is the same thing since federal has been running the Lake City arsenal.

Those commercial .308 cases with their thinner webs do have quite short case life when fired and excessively stretched in a 7.62x51 chamber. But as noted in my prior post I have never had a complete head separation that did not fully extract and eject. My conclusion is the complete separation occurs late enough in the ejection cycle that the front portion of the case is also ejected.

That’s all based on about 35 years of M1A shooting and hand loading with between 5000 and 10000 rounds per year in my competition days.

——

As rough as the ejection cycle is on a case in a Garand or M1A, it’s a lot better than was the case in the M37E1 and Mk 21 machine guns with their often improperly adjusted head space and the M60 with its constantly growing headspace. They were the reason the 7.62x51 got a thicker web than the .308 Win in the first place.
 
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I don't reload, but I have read about all the fun you can have reloading for .303 British while trying to get the best case life. What a game that is.
 
That IS incredible...

Tossing Lapua, Alpha or Peterson brass after 5 firings would be incredibly wasteful. Greg at Primal Rights does testing that most handloaders can only dream about. He got 45 firings on one piece of Alpha Munitions OCD 22 Creedmoor brass without annealing. He was full length sizing after each firing, and trimmed when necessary. It was a pretty hot load too at 41.6 gr H4350 under an 80 gr Berger moving at 3450 fps. After 45 firings the case neck had a small crack. No degradation in accuracy throughout the string, and the primer pocket was still snug. Incredible really.

....and it's great that he can do that. I'd sure like to know what he does to get that kind of longevity. Even babying the cases with annealing, minimal working and light loads, I wouldn't expect to get THAT kind of longevity.:confused::confused::confused:
 
....and it's great that he can do that. I'd sure like to know what he does to get that kind of longevity. Even babying the cases with annealing, minimal working and light loads, I wouldn't expect to get THAT kind of longevity.:confused::confused::confused:

He has it on video. It's 90+ minutes long. He has a shop with a reloading setup at his range, and shoots out his window. He also did an identical comparison with 22 Creedmoor Peterson brass and he actually stopped the test after @ 50 firings before the case failed. The Peterson brass flowed a lot easier and required more trimming, but he couldn't kill it. That session is also on video.
 
I recently discarded all my nickel plated .357 Mag cases due to splitting issues (which I understand is common). So far none of my non plated cases have split.
 
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