Optic question

[cephastherock]

I didn't see a specific category so I'll post here. Sorry. I've been using a Leupold Mark AR 1-4 scope With QD mount on my 5.56 AR's For years. Looking to purchase something with a little more range. Something that will pickup where the 1-4 leaves off( make tighter groups at longer ranges). $300 or less. QD Mount. Probably never more than 300yards. Just curious what's available and what you guys are using. Thanks in advance

 

[lrrifleman]

When it comes to shooting groups, magnification is not always your friend. Tight groups result more from bullets properly matched to the twist and loads with small standard deviations.

For my 600 yard F class rifles (especially my 26" barreled AR match rifle), I use either Weaver (El Paso) T10s and T16s. For my 1000 yard F class rifle, I have a Gen1 Vortex Viper PST which rarely gets turned to over 16X.

 

[cephastherock]

now that I've thought about what I wrote I should have said "better able to see the small holes at greater distance". My 1-4 has great field of view at 100 yards but I'd like to see the group a little better

 

[H Richard]

For out to 300 yards, and being able to see the target better you need at least a 14X, better a 20x. You don't need this much power to shoot well at 300, but seeing .223 holes in paper at that distance does demand a lot of power. I shoot Prairie dogs out to around 500 yards, and use a 6-18 Leupold, but it seldom bets turned past 14 X. My targets are about the size of between a 1Liter and 2 Liter soda bottle, but I don't think I could see holes in paper. The quality of the glass has a lot to do with it, so I wouldn't go below Leupold/Nikon Monarch for the least expensive. A rule of thumb is to spend as much as the cost of the rifle on the glass.

 

[Eric300]

A half way decent spotting scope!

 

[Rastoff]

...I'd like to see the group a little better

Sorry, but you're not going to like this answer; you won't see the holes any better no matter what scope you get.

I have a Vortex Razor HD Gen II, 3-18x50. It is a top-of-the-line scope. At 18x, on a clear and clam day with bright light, I can barely make out the holes from my .308Win at 300 yards. I certainly can't make any reliable decisions about the group with that scope. In fact, I've seen what I thought were groups only to realize that what I saw through the scope was not what was really on the target at 300 yards.

With a .223Rem (5.56x45) round you won't be able to see the holes at all at 300 yards. Sorry, this is just how it is.

A really good spotting scope might (and I emphasize might) work, but you'd need at least 60x. 60x is not uncommon with a good spotting scope, but you won't get one for $300 or less.

Just as an example, I've used this exact scope at a long distance competition:

It's a Swarovski ATS 65 (approx $2,500). At 65x I could see hits on a steel target at 450 yards, but couldn't really make out a group. The shooters were using either 6.5Creedmore or .308Win. A .223 in paper at long range simply can't be seen even with really good glass.

Now, you could go with an actual telescope. A reflector telescope like this might work: [ame="https://www.amazon.com/Orion-SpaceProbe-Equatorial-Reflector-Telescope/dp/B00D05BKOW/ref=pd_sbs_421_t_0/142-1883067-1238643?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00D05BKOW&pd_rd_r=77b9a868-e439-4710-a093-e30ad5eb894f&pd_rd_w=FfZL2&pd_rd_wg=D8MXU&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=CWWDRY6SZCGH03MXZES7&psc=1&refRID=CWWDRY6SZCGH03MXZES7"]Amazon.com : Orion 09007 SpaceProbe 130ST Equatorial Reflector Telescope (Black) : Reflecting Telescopes : Camera & Photo[/ame]
The drawback to using a telescope is they're kinda delicate. So, you can't just toss it in the back of the pickup and head to the range. They must be handled with care. If you get one, let us know how it goes, I'm curious.


Part of the problem is price. At your budget, you just won't get decent glass. Good glass costs money.

 

[vonn]

Some of the camera systems are getting cheaper and might be a solution.

 

[Luger9x19]

The Leupold Mark AR 3-9 picks up where the 1-4 leaves off. Not sure if they still make it, but it is a great scope!

Any decent 3-9 will have you seeing your targets better out to 300 yards. You will see .223 holes at 100 yards, but not beyond. That is what spotting scopes are for, but even at 300 yards you may need to use a splatter target to see the holes.

Good luck with your scope hunt and let us know what you go with and give a range report.

 

[chiefbob81]

Cabelas has a 3x9 bdc specifically for the 223. Priced right. I'm old, and shake but I can ring the gong all day at 200 yards.

 

[Rastoff]

Some of the camera systems are getting cheaper and might be a solution.

In all honesty, this is probably the best, and cheapest, solution.

 

[cephastherock]

The Leupold Mark AR 3-9 picks up where the 1-4 leaves off. Not sure if they still make it, but it is a great scope!

Is that one with the fire dot?

 

[diyj98]

I agree that a good quality spotting scope is what you need. I don't go to the range without my old Bausch and Lomb. But a high powered scope is certainly a bonus for shooting accurate groups. You can shoot smaller targets with better precision with higher power. I have a couple Leupold 6.5-20x scopes that are overkill for anything I hunt, but are great when shooting paper.

 

[Luger9x19]

Is that one with the fire dot?

That be the one! It came with just a duplex reticle or the Firedot TMR green dot.

The green dot is fantastic. Optics planet has it for sale for $347.99 with free shipping.

 

[gwpercle]

now that I've thought about what I wrote I should have said "better able to see the small holes at greater distance". My 1-4 has great field of view at 100 yards but I'd like to see the group a little better

For that a spotting scope works best...thats what they are designed for...spotting the holes .

That said a good 3-9 will pick up where the 1-4 leaves off but keep the 1-4 . I've discovered high magnification in a rifle scope, unless shooting off a bench , is not your friend . Every heart beat and movement shows up greatly exaggerated .
At 100 yards I do best with 4X .
Gary

 

[WR Moore]

Some of the best groups I've ever shot were with my variable accidentally set at 6X. As mentioned above, seeing all your wibbles & wobbles isn't necessarily a good thing. Also as some have noted, a consistent trigger press will do more for you than more magnification.

 

[Rastoff]

At the risk of drifting the thread more off topic, let's talk reticles for a moment.

This reticle is not good for serious long distance shooting:

This one is much better:

The main difference is the line width. The top one has lines that are easy to read, but cover up the target at longer distances. The bottom one actually has a gap in the middle so a target at a long distance won't be covered by the lines. This is the only way to really ensure a small group at distance.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, but the OP is talking maybe 300 yard/meters. If we're talking precision paper punching the marksperson would be dialing in the corrections anyway.

BDC systems sorta-kinda-maybe get you close at longer distances. Plus they're generally set up for the most common bullet weight/velocity combination. So, exact, you won't get. The reticles Rastoff shows require you to know the drop/drift of your particular load at given distances and calculate the number of mil-radians needed to use as an aiming point.

 

[Maddmax]

Get reactive targets that change color.

 

[rockquarry]

I didn't see a specific category so I'll post here. Sorry. I've been using a Leupold Mark AR 1-4 scope With QD mount on my 5.56 AR's For years. Looking to purchase something with a little more range. Something that will pickup where the 1-4 leaves off( make tighter groups at longer ranges). $300 or less. QD Mount. Probably never more than 300yards. Just curious what's available and what you guys are using. Thanks in advance

You're talking about rifle scopes as I understand your post and and not spotting scopes, right?

I have the scope you describe; it's a good simple one with for practically any use, but a little more magnification helps as distances increase. The 3x-9x version of the same scope that someone already mentioned works very well as distances increase. A simple duplex reticle will work for just about any situation. Unless you're very gadget-oriented or have some special use in mind, a scope with a cluttered reticle, illuminated reticle, or anything requiring batteries is to be avoided. Simple is almost always best, particularly if you're not shooting beyond 300 yards.

 

[iowaMallard]

I have a Leupold vx-1, 2-7x33. It's relatively small, super light, has generous eye relief, great glass. Most 3-9x40 scopes are over a pound in extra weight. This one is only 9.5 ounces.