Perma-Gel test results

[John R]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rdrancher]

gatorhugger - Maybe I missed it or something, but I read all six pages of your post on KTOG and never did see where you give penetration data for the Golden Sabers - only praise. Penetration data is given with all of the other rounds tested, through your meat concoction and wetpack. Data for the GS?

Thanks in advance.

floppy - Sorry for the thread drift.

rd

 

[gatorhugger]

These golden sabers went through 6 inches of meat and 2 inches of wetpak.One inch of wetpak equaling conservatively two inches of meat. so that would be a conservative 10 inches of meat.
I have duplicated this with chicken-
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1208017655
and with roasts, on and on.
I did a bunch of extensive 380 testing with different bullets and brands and for a while there like I said I was getting people sending me bullets to test. Yeah I know just a knucklehead shooting chickens.

It certainly doesn't make me an expert, just a guy having fun, and I am not denigrating Floppy's results, gel is different than meat, but I do strongly disagree about the statement that infers hollowpoints have a hard time opening up in the 380 caliber.

It's frankly not true. Not for Sabers and not for Gold dots, and not for Corbon DPX or Corbon JHP. Now it is true he didn't say all Hollowpoints have problems, but it was presented in such a way that a reader could very well interpret it that way, with a comment that he has never tested 380's that didn't have expansion issues. I wanted to set the record straight is all.

There are good 380 Hollowpoints that reliably expand in meat. People should understand that. It's not like it is a .25 that won't expand or has iffy expansion. They will expand.
Whether you like the penetration is another matter entirely.
There are bunches of tests on Box of truth, Ktog, ect. there are rib shooters and gel shooters, and water jug shooters, and phone book shooters,and sheetrock shooters, and I am just one of a thousand out shooting meat and linguini.
But rarely have I found a test showing 380 hollowpoints don't expand if hitting anything water based.
Most all 380 hollowpoints expanded reliably and consistently in every test I did. Penetration would vary, some meats are tougher, some wetpaks are wetter, but the good bullets do expand.

 

[rdrancher]

Thank you gator!

rd

 

[flop-shank]

The problems with the .380 in my tests generally involve heavy cloth. .38 spl. has the same problem because you're using a cartridge that lacks the velocity to exceed it's expansion threshold by much, especially from the short barrel of a P3AT. Also I'll mention once again that I don't know why, but bullets that pass with flying colors elsewhee seem to run into problems when they hit my denim. I like it that way. Speer SB .38 +P is an example.

I struck out getting some .380 Golden Sabres yesterday, but intend to test them at some point in the future.

 

[rdrancher]

Looking forward to it Sir Shank.

rd

 

[flop-shank]

Speer .38+P 135 gr. SB Gold Dot (23921)/1 7/8" 360 PD.

Round #1, bare P-G; 14" pen., .572 rec. diameter.
Round #2, four layer denim/P-G; 17 1/2" pen., no expansion, recovered base forward.

Speer .357 135 gr. SB Gold Dot (23917)/1 7/8" 360 PD.

Round #1 four layer denim/P-G; 14 1/2" pen. .587 rec. diameter.

 

[Spotteddog]

Thanks F/S!
I think I'll stick with my .38+P 158 LSWCHP G/C doing 1K FPS out of a 1 7/8".
(And there's a small part of me that sort of hopes it "plugs"!)
Thanks Again!

 

[flop-shank]

Btt..............

 

[sw282]

f-s. Would you like to test some Super Vel 380ACP 88gr jhp?
If so - contact me. How many rounds would you need to conduct a test?

I have been collecting Super Vel for quite a few years. I have it in most all the bullet weights and calibers produced.
Bullets too- Even Super Vel primers.


282

 

[flop-shank]

sw282, is the S-V .380 noticeably hotter than std. pressure .380 JHPs put out by big ammo today? If not, yes.

Remington .357 magnum 125 gr. SJHP (R357M1)/6" Smith and Wesson 686-4

Round #1; four layers denim/Perma-Gel; 14" pen., .535 avg. rec. dia., 83.1 gr. rec. weight. Mild secondary fragmentation noted. Two fragments weighing 4.8 gr. each were recovered from 1" deep secondary wound channels.

Round #2; bare P-G; 12 1/2" pen., .537 avg. rec. dia., 78.5 gr. rec. weight. Very severe secondary fragmentation occurred. Wound channels vary from 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" long from their origin at the permanent cavity (one fragment penetrated 4" deep and created a wound channel ~ 3 3/4" long) and penetrate to a depth of between 2 1/2" to 4" deep, covering a 3 3/4" radius. Six fragments were recovered with an avg. wt. of 4.4 grains.

 

[agent00]

Thx for posting the data concering the Re357M1.

 

[sw282]

flop- I honestly dont know about Super Vel velocity except 180gr 44. They avg 1803fps from my M29 8 3/8" If you would like to test some of the stuff I have I can send you a few rounds of some. I could send some of different calibers. Just pm me or email
[email protected]

 

[flop-shank]

Test gun; North American Arms .22 lr. mini revolver 1 1/8" barrel.

Remington Golden Bullet 36 gr. .22 lr. (1622c)

Round #1 four layer denim/P-G; 8 1/2" pen.

Round #2 bare P-G; 8 1/2" pen.

Neither bullet exibited expansion or weight loss.

North American Arms Black Widow 2" test results are on page 2 of this thread.

 

[TNRat]

May I suggest you "catalog" each load and gun in the first post at the beginning of the thread, and bold the line with the cartridge and gun info at the top of each thread? That would make a scan for a particular cartridge easier.

I would be interested in seeing a test on the GA Arms Ammo 44 Special 200 grain GD JHP.

Thanks.

 

[flop-shank]

Let's see if I got it!

Good idea, bro. I'll do that in the future.

 

[flop-shank]

Buffalo Bore +P and Speer 90 gr. .380 Gold Dots

Some of these results were posted before in other threads and had probably been linked to this one, but time goes on and no doubt those links are dead. So here are the results for the other .380 loads I've tested, but weren't posted in this thread. As time allows, I will occasionally add more tests in other calibers. .38 spl. will be next.

Buffalo Bore .380 +P .90 gr. Gold Dot JHP (27c/20)/Kel-Tec P3AT

Round #1; four layers denim/P-G, 12 1/2" pen., .430 avg. rec. dia. This bullet was recovered with a plug of denim smashed into it's expanded nose.

Round #2; bare P-G, 10 3/4" pen. .567 avg. rec. dia. One petal of the bullet lost it's jacket. The fragment was recovered at 4 1/4" depth inside the main wound channel.

Be advised that Buffalo Bore .380 +P proved too hot for a P3AT and will destroy the gun with even very limited use!!!!!! Do yourself a favor and just don't go there!!!!!

Speer .380 90 gr. Gold Dot JHP (23606)/Kel-Tec P3AT

Round #1; bare P-G, 17" pen. .419" rec. dia. This bullet had one petal folded out and another one was lost in the wound channel, otherwise it didn't expand. I honestly think this bullet was probably a fluke. Of well, at least it went deep.

Round #2; four layer denim/P-G, 13" pen. .442" avg. rec. dia.

 

[BigRich315]

Impressive numbers. I'll stay on the lookout for some .380 GDs. Currently all I can find are Double Tap.

 

[flop-shank]

Rich, if you reload, and aren't adverse to carrying reloads, I can give you my Gold Dot clone recipe.

 

[conchmariner]

This is great info.

I'd read that Keltec had said that BB was OK to use, but your tests seem to indicate otherwise. Ruger says not to use BB in the LCP.

Where did you notice the possible problem in your Keltec? I'm curious because I've got 40 rounds of the 100 gr hard cast BB and 40 rounds of the 95 gr FMJ which I haven't tried yet in my MDE for this very reason. I may have to get a larger .380 gun for these rounds.

Do you have any data on how much hotter the BB .380 rounds are loaded? Are they still within SAAMI specs?