Personal Record -- Inaccuracy

[Engineer1911]

I have been reloading since 1974, and shooting prairie dogs since 1982. One pleasant morning I fired 23 rounds of 25-06 (17¢ each, range 225 yards) until the dog got bored and went down the hole. The next shot at a different dog was successful.

Later, on that same trip I hit 27 consecutive dogs at 150 yards to 200 yards with my XP-100 in 223 Rem.

I understand the important concept of "Zero Your Rifle Scope" with the ammo you are going to shoot. I did that. On June 23, I missed 65 consecutive shots on several prairie dogs at 110 to 200 yards. In frustration, I rezeroed my scope (was 4" right at 200 yards) on a rock that did not move. During that steady stream of lead, 1 shot was perfect for windage, but 3" high for elevation. The bullet kicked up dirt on the mound behind the dog. The ground was wet from rain, no dust puffs, no dirt clods, nothing!

After rezeroing the scope, I hit 2 dogs with the last 10 rounds of that ammo. I had a different batch of ammo, cleaned the rifle (a rebarreled S&W M1500 in 223), a resumed shooting. My hits were about 75% with the different ammo lot and no scope changes.

I need to reload to reduce shooting costs. I switched to my AR-15. It shot like a lazer with 90% hits at random ranges.

While this insanity was going on, my shooting partner drove around another part of the field hitting 120 dogs with his stock Ruger 1022 heavy barrel 22 LR rifle using the outside mirror for a steady rest.

 

[Scharfschuetzer]

I've worn barrels out shooting prairie dogs.

Rifle and ammo need to be sub MOA for shots to 300 yards plus. My favorite calibre is the 223 Remington for low recoil, good ballistics for vermin and fairly good barrel life. Sierra 52 or 53 grain match bullets have been my go to projectiles.

A solid and reliable zero is mandatory as well as a scope that has reliable adjustments. My favorite scope has always been a T10 Weaver target scope that I bought in the mid-70s, although I often use an old Unertl 10 power scope too depending on the rifle I'm using.

The ability to judge range and wind conditions is paramount up on the high plains and deserts where prairie dogs live. Knowing the trajectory of your load and the wind deflection at various ranges and wind speeds plus up your hit rate significantly.

 

[BB57]

I’ve been shooting prairie dogs since 1972 and reloading since 1976.

It was more fun back in the day before it became a destination tourist activity. Back then they were not as heavily hunted and we’d start out shooting upwind with standard velocity .22 LR working out to about 100 yards. Then graduate to .22 Hornet, or .22 Rem, working out to 250 yards (40-45 gr bullets) and then moving out to 300 -350 yards with a .223 (52, 53 and 55 gr bullets mostly), before finally switching to a .243 for the long shots (87 gr bullets) although my brother preferred his .25-06.

If the town wasn’t heavily hunted you could do a lot with a .22 LR, and the quieter .22 LR and .22 Hornet, left the eventually longer ranged prairie dogs less disturbed.

I had (and still have) a 14” bull barrel T/C Contender in .223 and it’s an honest 1/4 MOA firearm and deadly on prairie dogs out to 300 yards with a Harris bipod and a rear bag and a 6x scope.

I’m also a big fan of the AR-15 for prairie dogs. I started with an SGW and milled the upper receiver off to fit a weaver rail, back in the pre-Picatinny rail days. I eventually switched to a more modern DPMS with a 24” bull barrel and custom set trigger.

Regardless of what the uninformed and or biased anti gunners say, the AR-15, in different configurations, is an ideal rabbit and Varmint rifle as well as a great match rifle. In fact it’s better at those pursuits than it is as a battle rifle (coming from someone who was issued and carried an M16A1).

I moved away from the .243 about 30 years ago and just started using .308 for the long shots as I was shooting an M1A in service rifle competition and I knew the .308 really well. A 168 gr SMK easily does the job on a prairie dog.

That was however before the faster 1-9 and 1-8 twist barrel 243s came along to accommodate the heavier low drag bullets intended for long range shooting. If I still lived out west and shot prairie dogs on a regular basis, I’d probably take a hard look at going back to the .243.

——

Load wise, I’ve settled on standard loads that work for me a long time ago. I’ve identified the velocities that produce the barrel harmonics needed for excellent accuracy in my rifles, as well as the velocity and temperature relationships with those loads and their powders. It lets me adjust my data for both wind and temp (I use a whiz wheel as it lets me true up the data on the fly very quickly and isn’t battery dependent).

When I switch to a new lot of powder for a load, I work up the load to achieve the correct velocity for the temp on that load development day. I generally load about 2000 rounds at a time and being able to load to a nominal velocity in any season is handy.

 

[Nevada Ed]

When I start missing shots, I look at two things.

A loose scope connection.............
or I did not adjust the scope for the correct range, per paradox setting.

Another option that can happen is a loose stock but that should be checked before leaving the house.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

When I start missing I just look in the mirror and say...

"Concentrate, Alexander!"

Cheers!

P.S. I'm hoping that's a quote from Aristotle...?

 

[cmansguns]

Never hunted prairie dogs..what are they?

So harking back to 1960/1961 living in a small farm village in upstate New York a local dairy farmer would pay us $.25 cents per tail to clean out his pasture(s) as the holes for those animals could break a cow leg and render the cow hors-de-combat.

I had an old Savage, iron sights, 22 Hornet (yall know the one with the butter knife bolt handle, box magazine). That rifle was one heavy chunk of timber but steady and accurate out to about 150 yds.

We always started with the closest ones (75-100 yds) then working out. The report from that 22 Hornet was enough to make the longer range ones dive, but one high pitch whistle would make them pop right back up. We needed to take them clean at top of den to be able to retrieve the tail and collect our bounty.

So........in my area of the country they were known as "whistle-pigs" unless they were located along the tree line of fields and pastures, then known as "wood-chucks", so what are "prairie dogs"???

Me thinks same animal, but where does that terminology start? West of the Ohio River? Visited the Cleveland Ohio zoo with the kids once and they had a prairie dog display.

 

[Just another 22 shooter]

If i miss 8-10 prairie dogs in a row at less than 250 yards, I stop and figure out why. As Nevada ED stated, usually loose screws on the rifle or scope mounts.
My last best day of shooting prairie dogs:
Hopefully, more to come.
Rifle is Sako Vixen 222. 40 grain VMax at 3600 fps mv.

 

[Nevada Ed]

If i miss 8-10 prairie dogs in a row at less than 250 yards, I stop and figure out why. As Nevada ED stated, usually loose screws on the rifle or scope mounts.
My last best day of shooting prairie dogs:
Hopefully, more to come.
Rifle is Sako Vixen 222. 40 grain VMax at 3600 fps mv.

Whoooooa Baby..............
that is one big rifle scope.

Yes sir, that should be up to taking down those little critters.
Sweet.

 

[BB57]

…/

/… So........in my area of the country they were known as "whistle-pigs" unless they were located along the tree line of fields and pastures, then known as "wood-chucks", so what are "prairie dogs"???

Me thinks same animal, but where does that terminology start? West of the Ohio River? Visited the Cleveland Ohio zoo with the kids once and they had a prairie dog display.

Ground hogs (aka Woodchucks, whistle pigs, etc) are found almost exclusively east of the Mississippi in the US. You’ll find a few around and over the head waters of the Mississippi in MN as well as the eastern edge of ND and the very tip of the north east corner in SD. Their range extends up into Canada and loops back down into the top of the panhandle in ID and extreme north western MT.

They are quite a bit larger than Prairie dogs. Adult groundhogs will run 16” to 26” in length and weigh 5-15 pounds.

Prairie dogs will only get to about 12”-16” in length and only weigh 1 to 3 pounds. I suspect a major reason for the differences in size and natural habitat range has to do with the drier grass lands and high plains environment that doesn’t offer the same level of forage as the Groundhog’s east river habitat. Prairie dogs are mostly west river in the northern plains and high plains in the US and in the Canadian prairie.

I’ve also never seen much over lap between prairie dogs and gophers and ground squirrels as prairie dogs will kill and eat their smaller competitors, although they are not generally regarded as omnivores. Prairie dogs are also opportunistic cannibals as they will eat dead prairie dogs which is one reason why poison is so effective on them.

In short, prairie dogs are smaller targets. In the spring they tend to be pretty skinny, but by fall then are normally pretty plump as they get ready for winter. They mostly hibernate, but I’ve seen them out and about on warm winter days if there isn’t any snow on the ground.

 

[BB57]

Here’s my .22 Hornet Varmint rifles, a Browning 1885, a Zatava Model 85 imported by Interamrs as the Mini Mauser and another Zastava Model 85 imported as the Remington 799 (although in an Interarms stock).

I also have a Zastava Model 85 in .223 Rem, but it’s not as accurate as the .22 Hornets. In addition to being quiet the .22 Hornet doesn’t put much heat in the barrel so sporter weight barrels work fine, as long as you swap out the rifle every 10 rounds or so.

 

[Sevens]

I certainly cannot consider myself any manner of an "expert" at prairie dog hunting and I've only lived in Michigan & Ohio so all of my hunting of them involves a full day to drive to the part of the country where prairie dogs live and a multi-day trip to hunt them.

There are many variables in the discussion and it's hard for all of us to get on the same plane, especially when we speak in generalities.

I've hunted these for 3 days a year in 9 successive years. About my equipment and my abilities I can safely say that I have gotten better EVERY year, so I can say that currently, I'm the best I've ever been at this game.

Re-reading the OP: Missing 65 prairie dogs at a range of 110 to 250 yards is nowhere in the world of "acceptable" for me. For something anywhere near that to happen, something in the equation is broke, off, maladjusted or WRONG.

Lots of things need to be correct, namely... you must know where you bullet is going to land and you must know the distance of your target. And if there is a cross wind, that will absolutely throw a wrench in.

I will miss some dogs at 300-400 yards, especially if there is erratic wind. I truly believe that for me, the most difficult part of making the kill is truly getting an accurate read on the range of the prairie dog. I find it exceptionally hard to be certain of my range and I'm using a pretty darn good range finder.

It's almost absurd to me how tricky it is on extremely flat, grassy and dirt land when trying to range. If you have a tree, fence post, barn, utility pole or any solid object, using that range finder is not difficult. But it's the polar opposite when you have only dirt mounds or tiny creatures to point the ranger finder at.

Naked eye, range finder or rifle scope, two mounds that appear to be near each other can be 150 yards apart and it's hard to convince your brain of this fact until you walk out there and watch your view change as you approach.

In my hunting, dogs under 250 yards with low wind are not often missed. And if you are talking 150 yards or less, it's almost literally never even the chance of a miss. I'm running .223 Rem, 50gr Hornady V-Max leaving my barrel at 3,300 fps average.

 

[Sevens]

I've worn barrels out shooting prairie dogs.

I believe it! At the same time, I would love to hear more about this because like any "new" guy might, I'm beyond curious of when I will reach that point.

I'm using a 24" heavy barrel Howa in .223 Rem, running the 50gr Hornady V-Max with 25.7gr H-338 and clocking 3,300 at the muzzle. I don't believe this is a "close to max" load but it's not slow, either.

Should I be guessing 10,000 rounds or more or less?

I realize that there is no firm "one fits all" answer here, but I'm curious of any trends you found when you've worn out barrels. I understand that a .220 Swift smoking at 4,000 fps is going to be a shorter life span.

Any comments or guesses would be interesting to me.

 

[BB57]

My .22 LR and .308s are shown here.

The rifle at the top is a Ruger M77 Mk II VT. I never liked the heavy laminated stock and I had it in a modified composite stock for a couple decades before moving it into a Hogue bedding blocked stock. The 26” medium heavy barrel makes a nice 500 or so yard antelope rifle as well as doing double duty in varmints.

The middle rifle is a CZ 455 Heavy tactical. It’s as accurate as my B14R and CZ 453 Varmint and American rifles.

The bottom rifle started out as a Rem 700 Tactical bought mostly for the action, but I got lucky on the barrel. The cold bore shot shoots to point of aim and its exceptionally stable, holding under 1 MOA for 10 shot groups fired at a rate of about 5 rounds per minute. I replaced the stock with a Bell and Carlson medalist stock with a bedding block as the pillar bedded Hogue stock Remington used was was too flexible. I also replaced the less than stellar X-Mark trigger with a Timney.

I used to use a slat off a Venetian blind velcroed front and back to the barrel to deflect heat away from the line of sight, but I found a strip of 1” tape measure tape worked almost as well and will roll up and store in a pocket on a stock riser pad.

 

[BB57]

I believe it! At the same time, I would love to hear more about this because like any "new" guy might, I'm beyond curious of when I will reach that point.

I'm using a 24" heavy barrel Howa in .223 Rem, running the 50gr Hornady V-Max with 25.7gr H-338 and clocking 3,300 at the muzzle. I don't believe this is a "close to max" load but it's not slow, either.

Should I be guessing 10,000 rounds or more or less?

I realize that there is no firm "one fits all" answer here, but I'm curious of any trends you found when you've worn out barrels. I understand that a .220 Swift smoking at 4,000 fps is going to be a shorter life span.

Any comments or guesses would be interesting to me.

It depends a lot on your rate of fire. Hot barrels experience a lot more barrel erosion than cold barrels. It’s a lot like the life span of a pair of boots or shoes. If you buy two pair and swap them every day, both pairs will last a lot longer. With Varmint rifles, it’s important to switch rifles and let a warm barrel cool down. Given that you can go through 500 rounds on a long afternoon on a good prairie dog town, having a few rifles to share the load is important.

I used to replace the barrel on my M1A Supermatch at around 10,000 rounds, but M852 ammo was only loaded to 2550 fps and wasn’t particularly hot.

After a I switched to an AR-15 I stuck to the same schedule but again I wasn’t loading my ammo super hot. I’ve always placed more priority on accuracy than flatter trajectory, particularly in known distance shooting, and today with good laser range finders it’s all known distance shooting.

As you noted the .220 swift is a barrel burner (and 4000 rounds is optimistic). Similarly the guys shooting 6.5 Creedmoor and loading 140 gr bullets at 2700 fps are only going to get around 2500-3000 rounds before accuracy starts to decline, although it probably won’t be shot out until 5000-6000 rounds.

Barrel life for a .243 is about the same as the 6.5 CM.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s when I shot a lot of prairie dogs, we didn’t have laser range finders and relied on either stadia wire range finding or optical range finders and neither was all that accurate, so a flat shooting cartridge was more important for long range shots.

 

[rockquarry]

Bob Bell was a serious woodchuck hunter and long-time gunwriter. He was the editor of Pennsylvania Game News, and wrote many gun, handloading, and scope articles for the Gun Digest publications over several decades.

Bell had a Sako .222 that shot accurately for 12,000 rounds. He had the barrel set back at that point but it never shot as accurately as it had originally. I tend to believe his estimate on the number of rounds fired more than I would many other estimates.

I have a New Ultra Light Arms in 7x61 Sharpe & Hart Magnum, a forerunner of the 7mm Remington Magnum and very similar ballistically, though slightly more efficient as it uses a few grains of powder less than the Remington cartridge. Powder capacity and load data for the 7MM Remington SAUM are even closer to the 7x61.

On my first barrel ( a Douglas), I got roughly 900 accurate rounds. If you're familiar with NULA rifles, they will group fairly consistently at 1/2" to 3/4", not as well as the alleged "all day long" rifles some Internet guys have, but close. When I started getting groups that were 1 1/4" - 1 1/2", I called the builder. He told me that in his experience, most 7mm Magnums are good for about 1,000 accurate rounds.

Having it rebarreled brought back the excellent accuracy for about another 1,000 rounds. I only have about 350 rounds on the third barrel and it should last a while as I don't do much load development anymore.

 

[H Richard]

I had to drive about 600 miles from IL to SD to shoot the Prairie Dogs. A few of us would make the trip the first of June every year for over 10-12 years. My favorite distance was the 250-300 yard range, but the longest 1 shot kill was 507 yards. I did wear out a Rem 700 heavy barrel (22-250) and had re-barreled with a Douglas stainless 1-9 twist. My back up ans walking around gun is a Sako Rimakii .222 Rem. Sweet little rifle.

Unfortunately it has been 6 or 7 years since my last trip, and just recently sold the 22-250. Was a lot of fun, but just memories now.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have a Howa 1500 bolt action .223 rifle with a Burris 6X24 scope. (same action as the S&W 1500 rifle mentioned above)

That rifle will do 1.25" @200 yards using a 55gr Sierra BTHP bullet (#1390) over 26.0gr Varget. @100yards it does a hair over 1/2MOA. That is the best bullet/powder combination I have found for that rifle. @200 yards it might be even better if I did a better job lol. I have not check it further because none of the ranges near me go more than 210 yards.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Long ago During my first long excursion North into Ohio I was amazed at how big the Wood Chucks were.
Then when I saw their holes and dirt piles, I realized these guys are huge!
Worst Prairie Dog situation I ever saw?
Camp Robert’s, near Paso Robles, CA.
They were killing All of the vegetation.

 

[Krogen]

Ground hogs (aka Woodchucks, whistle pigs, etc) are found almost exclusively east of the Mississippi in the US. You’ll find a few around and over the head waters of the Mississippi in MN as well as the eastern edge of ND and the very tip of the north east corner in SD. Their range extends up into Canada and loops back down into the top of the panhandle in ID and extreme north western MT.

Ground Hogs are marmots. Their range goes further West. In Washington, we call them rockchucks. They often hang out and sun themselves on basalt debris fields. Food, in the form of alfalfa fields is nearby. Farmers hate the critters. They can eat a lot of the crop. My pals and I have been warmly welcomed when we show up with our rifles.

 

[Skeet 028]

My PD rifles are all 22 cal. A Ruger 77-22 Hornet(SS so heavier bbl) I use 40 gr Nosler or Hornady 40 V Max with L'ilgun rem 6 1/2s.. A CZ in 204 Ruger when thw wind is CALM. a Rem 1st year 722 in 222 Rem with the same 40 gr bullets...a Rem 722 222 Mag with 50-52 gr bullets and a Bushmaster Varminter 223 that is about as accurate as the 2 bolt guns..almost. I got rid of the Ruger 1 in 22-250. Accurate but doesn't really give you all that much longer range unless it is not windy. This IS Wyoming so the wind usually blows. My 1st shot ratio in about 75 % with either in mixed range shooting. I have a fairly large PD population here on the ranch. Have to be careful where I shoot from as the rattlers hang around that area. It is amazing how many holes they dig and eat ALL the vegetation. I went south from home on Tuesday. Saw a pretty large group out on some BLM ground. Gonna go down and shoot some soon