Peters .30-30's must be filled with...alka seltzer?!?! What the..?

[Andy Griffith]

My friend down in Florida called me this evening.

He bought Winchester 1894 pre-64 in .30-30 and was given two boxes of ammunition to go with it.

He got it home, looked in the blue and yellow box of Peters and lo and behold, the brass was cracked, leaking and foaming from the neck area! He also stated that one round he crushed with his fingers just below the bullet. These are factory rounds, not reloads.

I've heard of powder deterioration, but this is ridiculous!

I wish I could get some pictures from him.
The one thing that I don't know, and he wants to know, is how stable the rounds are, and how to safely dispose of them at this level of decay. Being a reloader, he thought he might try to pull the bullets on the ones that aren't too far gone- but since we don't know the nature or type of powder, he thinks it might possibly be dangerous if these things were loaded with some kind of postwar surplus canister powder of origin not typically encountered.

For all I know, the box may be pre-war, since it lists the model 64 deer rifle and the "New" Marlin model 36!

 

[red9]

Your friend has what sounds like fairly common pre-war cartridges loaded with primers containing fulminate of mercury. The compound deteriorates, releasing mercury fumes which attack the brass. If that is the case, none of the components are reuseable. I would suggest turning them in at a hazmat disposal. If the ammo is pre-war and I am wrong, the box should be marked non-mercuric and non-corrosive.

Bob

 

[john traveler]

Mercury fulminate has not been used as primer material in US commercial ammunition for almost 100 years.

For that matter, the mercuric primer residue does not affect brass until the primer is fired, which in this case it obviously was not.

The smokeless powder, however can certainly deteriorate to the point that it corrodes the brass case from the inside. Some lots of pre-WWII ammunition exhibits this deterioration, especially if the ammo was stored in hot and humid conditions.

The bullets may be salvageable, but the cases, primers, and powder are not.

 

[desi2358]

I've seen this before, the powder is what is breaking down and it can eat the case from the inside out. I've dismantled similar loads to salvage the bullets but the case is beyond saving.
The powder usually sticks in the case, I've burned them in my firepit to dispose of it and to be able to scrap the brass (when it doesn't just crumble to nothing).

 

[John F.]

More deterioration info...

I've also seen this before, even with cartridges loaded with a modern, "Big Name" import powder. It was stored improperly in excessive heat/cold in a storage bldg w/o climate control for about 5 years before reloading. After loading, corrosion started in as little as 6 months and by 1 year was pretty well advanced. Upon discovery, the bullets were pulled for possible re-use, but all had heavy green corrosion on their bases. (These were put up in new, unfired brass, by the way... ) I don't think the cartridges you mention would be a hazard to handle, but I doubt the bullets will be very good for reloading.

I also saw this type corrosion in a box of Remington factory rifle ammo (standard green/yellow box) that was purchased ~1986 IIRC. By ~2003, it had green corrosion growing up out of the case necks and up the bullet sides. There was also visible green corrosion in the edges of the primer pocket in the small crevice where the primer top is rounded and its' sides meet the sides of the primer pocket.

We first noticed this when a big puff of smoke came from the shooter's rifle action, on the next bench over. He fired another round, and the same thing happened. I walked over and at his invitation, investigated. The cases were blowing primers -- gas leaking around the primer and into the action. As I'm a handloader, he asked me to dispose of the ammo for him. He had dated the box when he purchased it, and said it had been stored indoors in a climate controlled area since retail purchase. I pulled the bullets and found heavy corrosion in most of the cases/on the bullets. My guess is that the powder lot was not properly stabilized in manufacture.

So, ammo doesn't HAVE to be old or even stored incorrectly to start going bad. It's rare with quality ammo, but it is possible.

Hope this helps,

John

 

[oaktree01]

Green Corrosion on ammunition

I have two boxes , the old green/yellow ones, of Remington 270 130 gr core-lok ammunition purchased in 1990 +/-. The ammo has been stored in its original boxes in a dry and cool location. I opened both boxes the other day and both have some degree of green residue at the base of the bullet and around the primer. An interesting side note is that I did not use this ammo because I experienced misfires shortly after purchasing the ammo in 1990- I should have returned the ammo to the store but did not. I sent an e-email to Remington but have not had a response, yet.

 

[Steve C]

The green virdigris is caused by the copper corroding from exposure to weather or chemicals. I've seen copper ammo that's been in leather pouches or loops corrode from the chemicals released from the leather. You will also see it if there's any exposure to ammonia either from cleaning compounds, urin or feces near by deposited by pets or vermin.

Verdigris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

What's happening is a chemical reaction in the powder. Once this starts, the cartridges are useless.

This chemical reaction is the bane of all cartridge collectors. If caught early enough, the bullets can be pulled, the powder dumped and case and bullet washed out and then reassembled as inert cartridges.

Many a valuable collector cartridge has fallen to this scourge.