Pictures Of Sigma Internals?

[Sultan]

That helps confirm my observations that the outside spring helps keep the inside spring in the proper configuration. I noticed that when I had the sear out of the weapon and was manually operating it to see how it worked. Without an outside spring, the inside spring would become mis-shaped and was on the verge of coming out as I would depress the top of the sear block.

Kawabuggy, I'm going to change out my striker spring, but I am stumped at this point as to how to get it off the firing pin. Do I have the right spring and is there a tip you could give me to accomplish this? Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Kawabuggy]

Sultan, it has been so long since I did it-and I have done several other triggers in other guns since then. To get to the striker spring, you have to remove the black cap at the back of the slide. Remove the slide from the gun first. Then pry the black cap DOWN (hold the slide like it would sit on the gun). Be careful as once you pop that black cover down-and it will take quite a bit of force-there is a spring that will fly out. I wrapped a rag over the end of the slide, and only exposed the crack that I needed to get to. Once you get that cap off, I can't remember exactly what held the spring on the pin-if anything. I think once you get it open, it will be self explanatory.

Also, the spring that I am using is the Wolf 3.5 lb.. You can find it on Midway-USA.

I did all of the trigger mods first-polishing, changing out springs, removing springs, and it made a difference. But once I changed out the striker spring it all came together.

 

[Sultan]

I took a look at it after you posted about the striker spring the first time and I didn't see how the spring was held onto the firing pin - that is the right spring?

I was asking because what's holding that assembly together wasn't as obvious to me as it was to you. I was hoping you remembered how it came apart. The spring seems to be held on the firing pin by a white plastic retainer at each end. It may just be a pressure fit of some kind, but I don't want to break it to learn how it goes together.


I found an easy way to get the cap off the back of the slide. If you move the white plastic piece that you can see through the slot in the bottom of the slide, towards the front (towards the muzzle), the back piece will just glide off - not much stress at all. I can take pictures of that part if anyone wants them.

If you remember how the springs comes off the firing pin, please post it here. I'm going to try the 4-pound Glock striker spring as soon as I can get the original off. I'm hoping the 4-pounder will minimize the number of FTFs while still improving the trigger pull. Thanks again.

 

[DBell7827]

Kawa i dont disagree and haycreek if you could recommend a ballpoint pen to use i have taken apart several different pens and found one where the spring was almost identical in lenght and size but still seemed to bind up the action and or movement of the internal spring with stock springs installed in a new sear assembly removing the lower spring with the 2 fingers on it i got it to fire at 9.5lbs by removing only the inner spring in the sear block that is the thin one it fires at 7.5 but the out spring kinda seems to wanna walk out into the clip area and removing the outer spring same effect the inner doesnt want to stay put i have new springs and i will try the ball point way again but i couldn't seem to find a spring that would not hinder the movement of the inner spring i have shaved another 1/2 coil off the inner spring but have not fired it yet to test didnt get to the range this week ill keep posting with my findings also still no jams or ftf other than one or 2 from reloads but none from nib ammo

 

[Kawabuggy]

Sultan, you are correct, you have jarred my memory, the 2 white plastic pieces form the retainer. I can almost picture them in my mind now. I think that the spring goes around them and that is what holds the spring on. If you pull the spring back so that it is no longer covering the plastic pieces, then you can pull the plastic pieces out/off, then the spring will slide off.

 

[Sultan]

Thank you. I'll try this out today. So basically, almost everything on the Sigma is "remove the spring tension and the locking piece will drop off". A simple yet effective design. I'll let you know how the Glock 4-pounder tests go. Thanks for all your help, everyone.

 

[Kawabuggy]

I looked at the underside of my slide and can see the white plastic piece you are talking about. Problem is that the spring that is under that cap that explodes out is actually for the extractor. That white plastic piece you can see on the underside of the slide has no bearing on the extractor spring. But, maybe I am just not understanding what you are explaining (most likely!).

 

[Sultan]

That's it. The catch is that the extractor spring, while under lots of pressure, only will shoot out about 1/8-inch past the slide cover if you just hold a finger there as you remove the cover. It is real easy to do, but you do have to balance the 3 jobs: slide the white plastic sleeve forward in the slot, slide the cover off the back and keep a finger over the opening as you remove the cover to stop the extractor spring. I've done it quite a few times and once you see how easy it is, I think you'll agree. That extractor spring is the key to putting it all back together too. It is a really strong spring, but it doesn't go far because it is so stiff. It only has to compress and expand very little to do the job because it is so stong.

I was all prepared to buy several slide covers so I could replace them when I took the slide apart, but using this method, there is no need.

I hope you have good luck with that. I'm going to try the sear spring later this weekend. Thanks again for your good info.

 

[DBell7827]

ok i have decided to try the reduced striker spring 3.5 lbs instead of the stock 4.75 also got all new springs for the sear just incase im not happy with the light draw if it becomes to light at least i can put the sear spring back to stock all the springs came to about 20.00 with shipping from midway im going to test this out now ill wait for the springs im looking to have 7 - 7.5 with all the springs installed but will settl for 6.5 lowest as mentioned before by i believe kawabuggy id rather have it all intact if the gun is ever in question i will try and adjust the tension on the torsion spring of the orignal spring if it seems to be heavy still ill let you guys know what combination works for me so that way at least someone else can try it with out guessing what to do if they dont like the trigger pull on thier trigger

 

[haycreek]

DBELL 7827
I did not shorten the inside coil spring. I DID shorten the ball point pen spring by trimming both ends of the ball point pen spring, to the lenght of the original S&W outside spring-- which it will be SHORTER than the inside smaller diameter spring. Some ball point springs that I looked at were too small diameter and was tigher than others when placed over the smaller spring. I found one the correct diameter, and trimmed the length as noted above. Works good, no probems, I fixed two Sigmas this way.

 

[gmchenry]

Originally posted by haycreek:
...I fixed two Sigmas this way.

You guys kill me with the ball-point pen springs. You didn't "fix" jack. You "modified" your pistol with something from a 5 cent writing instrument. Somebody's going to get themselves killed with this crap.

There are a lot of sources for full disassembly instructions for the Sigma and even more for the Glock. There's no need to "pry" the cover off the back of the slide. Push the striker sleeve forward and the cover slides right off with your thumb.

The striker spring is held on by a pair of spring cups. Pull the spring back away from them and they can be separated and removed from the striker. Putting them back on is where you usually need a third hand.

 

[speedshooter]

I have done all the polishing and trimmed the sear springs down to around 6.5-7.0 lb pull and it is real smooth. I will not lighten the firing pin spring .cuz this is my carry weapon,
and if i need it.. i want it to go "BANG!!" i "put-up-with" the extra lb. or so on the pull for the reliability.

 

[Kawabuggy]

Gmchenry, remember when your mother told you "if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!"..

We are all just sharing ideas. No need for you to be so stiff.

And since you seem to have an aversion to ball point pen springs-I just MODIFIED 3 of my Mossberg rifles with them!

And when you say "somebody's going to get themselves killed with this crap"-well, you are right... I killed 3 hogs with my BALL-POINT PEN Mossberg last night!

Even better, my buddy shot a football (10 lb. pig) with my BALL POINT PEN Sigma! Ha ha!

So, yes, you are right-somebody, or something, is going to die after theses modifications! Why? Because my gun goes BANG! when I pull the trigger. Even though it's powered by BIC! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[gmchenry]

I guess you showed me, n00b.

 

[Kawabuggy]

Greg, I appreciate you adding this:

There are a lot of sources for full disassembly instructions for the Sigma and even more for the Glock. There's no need to "pry" the cover off the back of the slide. Push the striker sleeve forward and the cover slides right off with your thumb.

The striker spring is held on by a pair of spring cups. Pull the spring back away from them and they can be separated and removed from the striker. Putting them back on is where you usually need a third hand.

The rest of your post however.. Completely unnecessary. Couldn't you have used that negative energy for something more productive? You seem to know a bit about these guns. Certainly more than I do. You have something to offer and yet the message is lost in your sarcasm and negativity.

In case you did not know-God loves you! Your family loves you. Find solace in this and be happy. You only live once. No need to go through it so unhappy that you lash out at people on the internet. If being happy is too difficult for you to attempt-seek professional help! You won't get a re-do, or a do-over! This is your one shot! Don't waste it going through life with a chip on your shoulder.

Life is beautiful, and it can be for you too.

 

[Sultan]

Wow, Kawabuggy, your last paragraph and last line are inspiration everyone can use these days. Hope you don't mind, but I'm gonna hold on to that for a while. I need those reminders every now and again.

I still haven't gotten to experiment with my striker spring, but armed with your info and the constructive parts of gmcherry's post, I'll bet I can get it done easily. Thanks for everyone for the good information.

 

[Scooter2]

That's the first time I have seen an exploded drawing of a Sigma pistol. It sorta looks like a G***k.
Scooter

 

[gmchenry]

The semi-auto forum is littered with guys that think they know more than the engineers at S&W and they come through and have all sorts of "fixes" for the Sigma that may give a temporary sense that the trigger pull is "better" at the expense of reliability. They try to turn a cheap, reliable, combat pistol into something that it isn't. They never seem to stand the test of time.

(That goes for the tweaks and the tweakers.)

Top end is very much like the Glock. Fire control mechanism, particularly the sear block, is what is different. I like the adjustability in the Glock with connector options. I also like the feedback you get with pressure, very little movement, and the break.

If you're very used to shooting a double action revolver, that's more what the Sigma trigger feels like. If you get your skills to work with the trigger, it will improve your trigger control with just about any other firearm.

 

[Mickstix]

Originally posted by gmchenry:
There are a lot of sources for full disassembly instructions for the Sigma

Do you (Or anyone else) know a "link" or name for one of these sources?? I'd like to disassemble my Sigma 9VE, but don't have any literature on proper procedure, other than the basic field stip stuff.. Thanks!

 

[Sultan]

disassembly instructions for the Sigma

This is a nice website with really good pictures of the disassembly process. If you are looking for something deeper, like getting into the striker spring, I'll try to post that for you Mickstix. Let me know.http://www.notpurfect.com/main/sigma.html

Bottom line, this is a "budget blaster". It works, but the trigger pull on it is really bad - worse than any revolver I've ever shot.
I tried putting the Glock spring into the striker, by the way, and the Glock spring is about twice as long as the Sigma spring, so I don't know where that idea came from, but it won't work. This gun was fun to work with and work on, regardless of what Greg (gmchenry) says. I would view this gun as a good investment in educating yourself on (in my case) a reliable 40 caliber semi-automatic that has a lot of documentation on tweaks available. It was well worth the price I paid for it in the education I received about polymer guns. I got to get deeper into the operation of it because of good posts here that told how to do the tweaks, some of which were very resourceful and very educational.

I have now traded my Sigma in for a new Springfield XDm - which has all the tweaks I'd ever want done to it, done by the factory. I'm thankful for the experience of my Sigma, it taught me a lot.