Pictures Of Sigma Internals?

[gmchenry]

Originally posted by Kawabuggy:
I think I feel I represent the group...

Congratulations on winning your imaginary election!

I'm not sure who you think you are, but you aren't "that guy".

Look at the registered dates of those that just run through these Sigma trigger threads and compare those to the voices of reason. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize the pattern.

I don't know why you take this so personally. It's not like I told you your kid is ugly.

 

[Sultan]

To: gmchenry
Yes, Kawabuggy is that guy and what he says to you is the truth. You've done nothing but put people down who post their mods here from day one. We are all adults here trying to figure out and share some mechanical information about a machine. Thank goodness most of us don't listen to you and accept what is handed to us with the "that's as good as it will ever be" label on it.

To Kawabuggy
Yes, you do represent me at least in what you posted. Also, I can't thank you enough for posting all the details you have about the Sigma trigger and how to improve it. When I traded mine in on my next 40 Cal, the only comments I got were: "This is the best trigger I've ever felt on a Sigma". That from a professional gun smith who evaluated my Sigma for trade-in. I told him what I did and how I did it and he said it was a first class job.

I want to thank everyone here for helping me understand more completely, the workings and characteristics of the 40 Cal and in particular, the Sigma. I have enjoyed all I learned and got to do with it and after inspection my a professional gun smith, what I did was completely safe.

 

[bullitt1668]

Alright, I worked on my trigger today, and it was so easy! I removed both the outer spring and the pig tail spring, leaving only the thin longer spring. I also did some polishing of the sear, but I don't see how much this really helps. Anyways, the pull now is amaizing. I really can't tell you how much lighter the pull is, but it's light!!!

I'm going the ranger tomorrow, so I'll report back with the findings.

Thanks to everyone how has shared their experiences with working with their Sigmas, so we can enjoy ours!

Bullitt

 

[Mickstix]

Originally posted by bullitt1668:
Alright, I worked on my trigger today, and it was so easy!Bullitt

Hey, glad to hear it turned out ok!! Lookin forward to your range report!! (from your above post) Im not sure how light the reworked triggers were from S&W.. Seems one guy said it felt about "half" what it once was? I'll have to go reread the post and see what they said again.. I'd really like to find out excactly what the guys at "S&W" do to help the Sigma triggers.. Wonder if they get the triggers lighter with all the stock springs and stuff still intact?? Have to see if anyones opened theirs up after havin it worked on..

 

[MK]

It would have to be purely from polishing or
lubrication, as I really doubt they would send
out a pistol that was not conforming to factory
specs, or parts count.

 

[bullitt1668]

Originally posted by Mickstix:
Wonder if they get the triggers lighter with all the stock springs and stuff still intact?? Have to see if anyones opened theirs up after havin it worked on..

I'm interested in knowing this as well.

---------------------------------------------

Well, as promised, I went to the range today... and oh man, the trigger pull is amaizing!!! I don't have a gaige so I can't tell you how light it is now, but removing both springs made a huge difference. The trigger pull it's still long, but it's light! At ten yards I had several 3" groups (3rounds), and in my book, that's good enough!

I shot 150 rounds of regular winchester target ammo 115gr and 50 rounds of speer gold-dots 124gr hollow points (my carry defence rounds)... and guess what? I did NOT have a sigle problem with any of the rounds.

I'M EXTREMLY SATISFIED WITH MY TRIGGER MOD! AND AGAIN I THANK EVERY ONE WHO HAS POSITIBELY CONTRIBUTED THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH THEIR SIGMAS SO WE CAN ALL ENJOY OURS!

Happy shooting everyone!!!

BULLIT1668
Now a Proud Owner of his 9mm Sigma!

 

[Mickstix]

Sweet! Glad it worked out!! I may try the mods once my new gun arrives (1911) Im affraid to tinker with my sigma much now, as it's my HD gun, and the only other time I messed with it I tried a reduced striker spring from Wolff (3.5lb) and it started having problems with light strikes w/my 9mm WWB range ammo, so I switched it back immediately.. Made the trigger feel good though!

 

[tonytgman]

Hello Everyone!!! Sorry I haven't posted in a while but yes I'm still here. First of all I agree with Kawabuggy, Gmchenry grow up, get a life, and go away!!! Second of all, Mickstix I will try to get you some pic's on the mod's I did on my sw40ve, but it is very simple to do if you follow the instructions I had posted earlier. Again I will attempted to get the pic's you need posted ASAP. Also I have several hundreds of rounds through my sw40ve with great results and with the lighter and smoother trigger pull I'm much more accurate with this weapon. Hope everyone had a great Christmas..... Hey Kawabuggy, it's all good!!!

 

[Mickstix]

Originally posted by tonytgman:
Mickstix I will try to get you some pic's on the mod's I did on my sw40ve, but it is very simple to do if you follow the instructions I had posted earlier.!!

Please do! I'd be tempted to try it with just the text, but Im not very familiar with the trigger/sear/sear ramp of semi auto guns to begin with, so pix would certainly be helpful for education and ease of mind as well.. Lookin forward to seeing them!!

 

[jagdawg]

This is my 3rd post ever on this forum, and the other two were also done today.

Not to say that I've not been on here before. I purchased my Sigma over a year ago when Bud's had 'em cheap, and S&W had the rebate AND free mags.

Loved the gun - but not the trigger. Came here about 3 months into my ownership to find "trigger fixes" - and tried and tried and tried to get the right combination - just ended up with a gun that had too many failures to fire even with various combinations of mods.

This isn't meant to be a downer for those of you experimenting - good luck. But I did post something in the Wish List Forum. Here's the link:
Wish List

Tells my story. Wouldn't think it would take too much re-tooling.

Now, bring on the "get an M&P" crew! (if you read my other posts - the M&P - even with it's interchangeable backstraps - still wasn't as good of "fit" to me as the Sigma)

I did notice elsewhere online...or maybe it was in Gun Digest...that someone has started making new frames for Glocks... Nah, too much money.

Someday I'll find a highcap that is just "PERFECT". To me, it would be the Sigma with a 3.5# to 4# trigger that goes BANG everytime with any load you feed it at around $300 street. In the meantime - it's a Glock 19 that isn't as comfortable - but does everthing else.

 

[tonytgman]

jagdawg; if you follow the instructions which I had posted it will fix your trigger pull problems and shorten the pull as well and I have not had any ftf's or fte's at all...

Mickstix; I had to send you several e-mails of different pic's due to your domain not excepting all of them at once. Hope they help, let me know how things work out, please post!!!

 

[jagdawg]

Thanks - but too late...gun is gone. Bear with me while I blow some steam.

There are a few different posts here on this same subject - and if you search the rest of the WWW - there have been others dealing with the same issue for years - a few folks that probably have never posted or read anything on this forum.

My point is - I've been checking on this and lurking here and other places for over a year. Purchased 3.5# springs, 4# springs, clipped springs, stretched springs, polished, smoothed, lubed, left springs off, etc., and ultimately - the gun would run well for awhile. I'd think "I GOT IT!". But, when I started introducing different ammo/pressures (Corbon, WWB, S&B, clear down to Wolf) different things started occuring more than they should. We are talking anywhere from one per 25 to one per 150. However, failures, whether they be failure to feed, fire, or eject, are not an option. Granted, they will happen with any gun at any given time - but when I took the gun back to stock - it was perfect with the different loads...except for the trigger pull.

Believe me, I tried - and maybe you have the magic fix - but I lost faith. Plus, I just can't see why - if there is a way to lower the pull correctly even a bit by the factory - they won't do it...regardless of legal liability. 5#'s isn't going to create a legal firestorm for a handgun manufacturer - is it? If so, call it a "tactical/practical" and give it a 4# or a 3.5# and your liability even less.

Hours and hours of tinkering, manpower, typing, scouring the internet and forums have been invested into this ONE problem of this gun - and it amazes me that S&W doesn't recognize what a winner they would have here for the difference of some R&D and refitting. Again, I think they thought the M&P was the answer. It wasn't for me. The Sigma fit like a glove - the trigger didn't.

 

[tonytgman]

jagdawg; I wouldn't say that my fix is magic and I to have scoured the internet and nowhere have I found a fix like mine. I'm basicly lowering the sear by .010 of an inch to reduce the long pull, and as far as the springs, well, I've herad of people taking out the pigtail spring, I wouldn't because the sear must have that in order to return properly while firing multiple and quick shots (rapid firing). The trigger spring, the only real function it serves is to return the trigger and does not need a heavy spring, and as far as the sear springs (coiled springs) makes no sense to me why they put two of them there when it is not truly needed. Also, even though it may be done, I would not change the striker spring in order to lighten the pull, by doing so may reduce reliability. All in all I could understand where you are coming from, but again I have tested mine with hundreds upon hundreds of rapid firing shots and still have not had ANY problems with ANY type of ammo at all and I've tried all kinds. Also keep in mind when you shorten the amount of trigger travel you automaticly reduce the amount of trigger pull. I hope that this helps others in their quest to better their weapon.....

 

[tonytgman]

When I first bought my sw40ve and I had fired it about the first 100 shots I wasn't very pleased, the gun jammed like every 3rd shot. I put it away for about a year and a half until my wife decided that she wanted her own gun. I was going to trade it in for something else but of coarse my wife wouldn't let me spend more money. I then started to tinker with it more and more and started to find the problems with the gun, (the barrel would drop to much and would cause FTE's, the trigger pull was to long and hard causing my POA to be way off), then I begun to fix those problems. I have tried many different things and finally perfected my mods, now I'm very glad ( for once ) that my wife wouldn't let me spend the money. This gun is perfect. I can use any type of ammo with no FTF's or FTE's either while slow or rapid firing, my POA is right on target sense I don't have to pull on the trigger so long and it being so hard. Again I've tried everything and yes with some failures, but due to those failures I have been able to perfect these mods, and I hope to help others with any problems they have with their weapon.....

 

[Mickstix]

Tonytgman, thanks for the pix!! Got em all!! I'll give em a study and see if I think I can pull it off!! Looks/sounds very interesting!! Just getting those darn ridges off the ramp side of the sear really smoothed out my trigger pull.. I returned all the springs to their proper place.. I tried it w/o the back "pigtail" and didnt notice any difference in pull, so I put it back too.. The pull weight doesnt bother me as much as the crunch trigger did.. Much better now!! Hopefully your idea will get rid of some of that play in the trigger!! Seems like mine has a 1/4" of freeplay until it starts to engage.. Looks like they could could of tightened it up with a different trigger connector "arm" (not sure of the proper term)that has a tighter "U" in it, where it engages the pin on the sear?? Wonder what the reason is for having all that play??


jagdawg, from all the mods I've tried and read about, anytime you mess with the striker spring, it'll make the gun less reliable due to light primer hits.. Ive never gotten any real feedback on using a 4lb glock 19 striker spring, but the wolff 3.5lb made my gun a 1 in 10 "clicker", so back in went the stock 4.75lb spring.. Anyway, as far as S&W fixing the triggers, they will and do!! There have been 2 or 3 folks post within the last month or so who've called S&W, sent their guns back, and gotten them back with half the pull they sent them in with, and all free of charge!! Just have to call S&W and tell em the triggers messed up and they'll do the rest! Most of the mods and folks posting here lately in this thread are just natural born "tinkerers'" like myself, and enjoy fiddling with these guns ourself.. I'd never mess with one if it was a primary or self defense gun, but now that I got my new 1911, I'm free to get back to playing with my sigma9ve!! Hope you have a better experience if you happen to get another!!

 

[bullitt1668]

Originally posted by tonytgman:
jagdawg; I'm basicly lowering the sear by .010 of an inch to reduce the long pull

Can u plz explain me how exactly u accomplished this? So far, I removed both springs and pull is light, but still long. I've fired about 30 rounds rapid fire and so far no problem with the sear returning properly for the next round.

Thx,

Bullitt

 

[tonytgman]

bullitt1668; please read my post on pg. 6 of this thread and it will answer your questions. it is a very easy mod, and even if you do nothing else to the springs, using a .010 plate, which you can make out of a automotive filler gauge, to fit between the sear ramp and the sear it will shorten the amount of travel and also seem to lighten the trigger.....
Check it out and try it. You will be surprised !!!

 

[tonytgman]

bullitt1668; I sent you an e-mail with a pic of my sear ramp with the .010 plate in place.....

 

[Out West]

Tonygman, would you mind sending that pic to me? I am having a hard time visualizing the modification. Email address is in my profile. Thanks,

Out West

 

[tonytgman]

Out West;
The e-mail has been sent.....