Pistol Primers

[jimmyj]

The current primers available are BIG BUCKS !

Are the suppliers/dealer having to pay far more than normal from the factorys or are they taking advange of the limited supply situtions ?

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

YES THEY ARE . I HAPPEN TO SEE A DISTRIBUTOR PRICE SCHEDULE FOR PRIMERS. THAT WAS IN MARCH 21. OF COURSE UNKNOWN DELIVERY TIME. WHEN BOUGHT 1 MILLION AT A TIME, SMALL PISTOL WERE $34 PER K. LP WERE $36 PER K. MATCH WERE $2 PER K MORE. BEFORE THIS MADNESS THEY WERE ABOUT 45% LOWER. SO THEY HAVE GONE UP IN PRICE. IF YOU FOLLOW EVEN THE PRICE OF METALS ( COPPER, LEAD AND SUCH . NOT SILVER AND GOLD) YOU CAN SEE THAT IT WAS ON THE WAY UP. BUT YES OF COURSE, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO SCALP PEOPLE.

 

[BB57]

YES THEY ARE . I HAPPEN TO SEE A DISTRIBUTOR PRICE SCHEDULE FOR PRIMERS. THAT WAS IN MARCH 21. OF COURSE UNKNOWN DELIVERY TIME. WHEN BOUGHT 1 MILLION AT A TIME, SMALL PISTOL WERE $34 PER K. LP WERE $36 PER K. MATCH WERE $2 PER K MORE. BEFORE THIS MADNESS THEY WERE ABOUT 45% LOWER. SO THEY HAVE GONE UP IN PRICE. IF YOU FOLLOW EVEN THE PRICE OF METALS ( COPPER, LEAD AND SUCH . NOT SILVER AND GOLD) YOU CAN SEE THAT IT WAS ON THE WAY UP. BUT YES OF COURSE, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO SCALP PEOPLE.

$34 per 1000 for a wholesale price is about $5 above what the retail price was a few years ago.

However, even assuming a normal 100% mark up that puts the retail price at $68 per 1000.

Looking around last week the cheapest I saw $75 per 1000 and $115 per 1000 was pretty common.

That $115 per 1000 is clearly scalping. I take note of vendors using outrageous whatever the market will bear prices to maximize short term profit at customer expense and put them on my “do not patronize” list.

 

[glowe]

Any reputable dealer I have dealt with was getting anywhere near 100% markup and if they tried, I would be history. No honest business is charging twice the wholesale price out there.

Those who are charging $75 and up for primers are crooks, taking advantage of the situation and sucking up the meager supply, at much lower prices, to re-sell. I cannot believe that it seems everyone is buying at those prices!!!!!!! Cannot say when, but see no reason why primers will not return to under $40 down the road. Remember the 22 "shortage" from years back. The only good news is that some sellers got caught with their pants down, buying 22 ammo at inflated prices and then charging exorbitant prices for them. When supply and prices returned to near normal, they got burned bad and I did not feel the least bit sorry for them.

 

[BE Mike]

When they become regularly available, the price will come down. I don't think that American manufacturers are making any available for resale. The current administration apparently has put a stop on Russian imports, so no Wolf primers? I haven't seen any primers available at all at the regular reputable dealers, even the online dealers.

 

[stansdds]

Primers, the cup being made of unobtainium, are nearly impossible to find these days. I was told, last month, by my local retailer that they have been told it would be at least 18 months before they could expect to receive a supply of primers.

I'm wondering if the supply of primers for reloaders has fallen victim to the same thing that has happened to computer components, especially video cards. What happened there was increased demand, decreased production, and scalpers would buy up every card available and then act as a retailer, applying a 100% to 200% mark up.

 

[max503]

There's something fishy going on. We can't get primers, cars, computer chips, bicycle parts, toilet paper, etc, etc, etc.

And they can't sign-up people to make these things. We're paying them not to with Unemployment handouts.

Weird.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

My store is selling them for $60/k. Then again, we haven't had a shipment in several weeks. We probably have ~$1mil on backorder, maybe five times that. Margins are a little higher than pre-panic but not as much as you would think. I don't know if or how much the manufacturers/wholesalers have raised their margins. Current wholesale prices are about the same as retail prices of 18 months ago. Even if you put increased demand aside, the cost of production is substantially higher.

 

[TXBryan]

Am I missing something? I have a hard time understanding the angst against capitalism. Stuff is worth exactly as much as someone is willing to pay for it - this is the whole premise of stock markets and commodity exchanges which are the foundation of our economy. If you're out of primers and like to roll your own $75 per K may be viewed differently than if you have good stocks of them.

Applaud those who simply refuse to buy or put retailers on a "do not patronize" list because of their perceived gouging on primers and other hard goods. If it's not worth the cost to you then don't buy but pricing at the outside edge of what the market will bear doesn't make the vendors crooks in my opinion.

I do believe it's a bit naive to think we'll ever return to yesteryear's prices as that doesn't seem to happen anywhere else I'm aware of. But I also don't think those buying expensive primers are necessarily establishing a new, outrageous, price point. The law of supply & demand will dictate where prices "settle" when we get to the other side of this mess.

 

[stansdds]

Fan of capitalism? I am. Fan of unfair market manipulation? I am not.

 

[Wolffe 104]

In MA, they are scarce at least in my area, one store had them out of the 4 I checked for $169 or $179 per 1k. Its cheaper now to just buy ammo since that seems to be showing up a little more now and then save the brass for the future.

 

[SS336]

I have not seen small pistol primers locally in over a year. Always seem to be a little late at any of the mail order houses.
Yes, I have spent too much on primers. 1000 Large pistol primers at Midway for over a $100 with shipping and Hazmat fees for instance. My gun club has an order in with it’s various suppliers for a million primers of different sizes. Not a peep till early this month when they got some CCI #41 small rifle primers for $140 a 1000.
I try hard to leave my tin foil hat in the drawer, but something is just not right with this

 

[cmj8591]

Primers are the slowest component to make because they are almost hand made and have to be made apart from everything else. There is a limit to how much priming compound they can work with at one time and there's not a ton of automation. With the huge demand for ammo, they are all going into manufacturing. Once everything catches up, they'll come back down to earth. Remember that foil is one of the components in a primer so every time you fold some into a hat, you're slowing down the process!

 

[Johnnu2]

Once again..........

DON'T BUY..... stop shooting if you have to but DON'T BUY

We control the market value.... We do it either by being undisciplined, OR by taking control and "DON'T BUY".

Those that have, and want to sell, need us....VOTE with your FEET. I haven't been in an LGS or on the internet sales sites in almost 2 years. No plans for the imminent future; but then, I'm old and very stubborn.

IMHO of course,
J.

 

[glenwolde]

If I was a retailer I'd be marking those suckers up. Why sell them at normal prices so others can buy them up just to resell? You might as well make the money rather than enable someone else. Regardless they will get sold at inflated prices. Of course I might discount them to my regular customers.

Primers are like condos. In a real estate decline condos are the first to go down and the last to come back.

 

[lrrifleman]

I have to agree, something is up, but somethings just aren't adding up.

I have seen reports that commercial ammunition manufacturers are 2 years behind in their NATO specification military ammunition contracts. Since when have commercial ammunition manufacturers supplemented the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant and Winchester Military Ammunition during peace time? I find it disturbing that when you can find ammunition on the shelves, it appears to be mil spec NATO FMJ production overruns!

Looking for revolver ammo? None on the shelves. Looking for JSP, JHP, or lead target ammo? Don't blink! Looking for something other than current NATO or former Iron Bloc chamberings? Don't hold your breath!

Take a look at the GSSF results, and you'll see that the 9mm Luger round seems to be ruling the roost, only because it is the only factory loaded round to be found. Most of the people shooting the few 40s, 10s, and 45s appear to be hand loaders.

At the Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit held last weekend at the Sig Academy (where factory loaded ammo is mandated), I believe 26 of the 27 participants present were firing 9mm Luger.

Personally, I like to shoot my revolvers and other than 9mm pistols, so I will continue to reload. Will I go out and stockpile primers at the current exorbitant prices? No. But will I purchase an occasional brick of high priced primers when I get low? Probably, because I enjoy maintaining proficiency and I won't have a safe full of paperweights because of supply and demand induced gun control! Paying $0.15 a primer puts my handloads at about $10 a box (using my own cast bullets), which is better than $50 or more a box, if the chambering can be found!

 

[BB57]

If I was a retailer I'd be marking those suckers up. Why sell them at normal prices so others can buy them up just to resell? You might as well make the money rather than enable someone else. Regardless they will get sold at inflated prices. Of course I might discount them to my regular customers.

Primers are like condos. In a real estate decline condos are the first to go down and the last to come back.

I see those same folks who’d buy primers at a fair price to mark up and resell lined up at Walmart the days the truck arrives to buy up all the ammo to resell. I see them again at gun shows with a table full of a motley collection of whatever they could find marked up 200-300% for resale. I don’t patronize scum like them.

I am however more than happy to ask them for a sales tax license as they are clearly buying with the intent to resell. I have to pay 7% sales tax, so should they. I’m also more than happy to have a talk with the show promoter about illegal retailers. Funny how they’ll thinned out at subsequent shows.

 

[BB57]

I have to agree, something is up, but somethings just aren't adding up.

I have seen reports that commercial ammunition manufacturers are 2 years behind in their NATO specification military ammunition contracts. Since when have commercial ammunition manufacturers supplemented the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant and Winchester Military Ammunition during peace time? I find it disturbing that when you can find ammunition on the shelves, it appears to be mil spec NATO FMJ production overruns!

Looking for revolver ammo? None on the shelves. Looking for JSP, JHP, or lead target ammo? Don't blink! Looking for something other than current NATO or former Iron Bloc chamberings? Don't hold your breath!

Take a look at the GSSF results, and you'll see that the 9mm Luger round seems to be ruling the roost, only because it is the only factory loaded round to be found. Most of the people shooting the few 40s, 10s, and 45s appear to be hand loaders.

At the Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit held last weekend at the Sig Academy (where factory loaded ammo is mandated), I believe 26 of the 27 participants present were firing 9mm Luger.

Personally, I like to shoot my revolvers and other than 9mm pistols, so I will continue to reload. Will I go out and stockpile primers at the current exorbitant prices? No. But will I purchase an occasional brick of high priced primers when I get low? Probably, because I enjoy maintaining proficiency and I won't have a safe full of paperweights because of supply and demand induced gun control! Paying $0.15 a primer puts my handloads at about $10 a box (using my own cast bullets), which is better than $50 or more a box, if the chambering can be found!

Lake City like other government owned ammunition plant is none the less contractor operated. Since October 2020 it has been managed and operated by Winchester Ammunition, a division of Olin.

Back when M118LR was developed Lake City developed it in conjunction with Federal, and Lake City started using Federal Gold Match cases for its “match” ammunition, just restamped as such. Around the same time you could also buy NATO Marked Lake City cases in Federal marked bags of 100. It was again identical to Federal’s gold match brass in weight and water capacity.

The old 173 gr BTFMJ match bullet used in the .30-06 M72 Match and M118 Match ammo was made by Lake City and it was a very good bullet until the tooling got tired. With its replacement with the 175 gr Sierra Match King, Lake City no longer makes bullets and as such relies on the same suppliers as other commercial ammunition manufacturers.

Personally, I think the loss of that capability to produce ammunition components is a strategic weakness, but it’s consistent with the general trend toward privatizing government operations to downsize government, even though it generally triples the cost for the same product or service. I say that as a former COR for the federal government, aware of exactly how much more contracted services cost. The thing people who push privatization forget is that each and every one of those companies is profit driven and many of them have the same philosophy as some of the vendors posting in this thread - “why shouldn’t I charge as much as I can get away with?”

It’s literally profit over patriotism.

 

[BB57]

Once again..........

DON'T BUY..... stop shooting if you have to but DON'T BUY

We control the market value.... We do it either by being undisciplined, OR by taking control and "DON'T BUY".

Those that have, and want to sell, need us....VOTE with your FEET. I haven't been in an LGS or on the internet sales sites in almost 2 years. No plans for the imminent future; but then, I'm old and very stubborn.

IMHO of course,
J.

I agree. I’ve loaded up 2850 rounds of 9mm in the last week and I am half way through my last carton of 1000 small pistol standard primers.

I’ll start substituting CCI 550 magnum small pistol primers in my 9mm loads for the next 2000 rounds and then I’ll switch to small rifle primers for future needs as I am still well stocked on those. My AR-15’s in 9mm as well as my Uzi and MP5 handle the harder cups just fine, so those loads will be be Ball rounds dedicated for use in those weapons. I don’t like to specialize quite that much, but it’s preferable to paying way to much for primers and supporting the continued shortage and high prices.

I’m also shooting more .45 ACP to draw more on my large pistol primer stocks.

I’ll restock again to at least 10,000 of each type once the shortage is over and prices are back to normal.

For those who think that won’t happen, think harder. Yes, you

We’ve seen some normal more or less inflationary rises after each shortage ($21-$23 became $25 per 1000 and eventually became $29, and $29 crept up to $30 and eventually became $34 just before the recent jump) but $70+ won’t be the new norm. It’ll be $35-38 at most.

In fact once all the back orders come in that are well in excess of demand, we’ll see vendors trying to turn that inventory back into money and we’ll see some decent sales. That’s the time to restock. Not before.

 

[buck460XVR]

There's something fishy going on. We can't get primers, cars, computer chips, bicycle parts, toilet paper, etc, etc, etc.

And they can't sign-up people to make these things. We're paying them not to with Unemployment handouts.

...went out to eat last week and the local Perkins was out of most of their most popular menu items. Waitress said they can't get them from their supplier. Local school district cannot get toner for their copy machines, and have told there is no light in the distance......this is from Xerox. When I go to the local Walmart, half their shelves are empty. I am beginning to think this is the new normal.