Please advise, did I do something dangerous?

[ILTim]

 I know, if ya gotta ask.....

I loaded 50 rounds .45 acp with my new Matt's bullets 240 grain HBWC in mixed range brass.  The OAL is .931 (almost flush), cci 300 lg pistol, and 4.2 grains bullseye. Light taper crimp.  Lee three die set.  

Many won't chamber in my 625 mountain gun.  Found I'm around .473 with bulges mid case at the bottom of the bullet, .475 typical to as high as .480 on a couple.  

So I removed the decap pin and full length sized all 50 back down to .468 eliminating any bulges.  They chamber well now obviously.  

I'm thinking it's ok to fire these but I wanted some other opinions first.  I researched the **** out of this load and thought 4.0 - 4.8 grains bullseye under a 240 grain bullet should be fine in .45 acp, but I have no idea about appropriate cartridge overall length.  No reference data for this bullet type. Thinking that my volume is pretty dang low, so pressures will be up, but at 4.2 gr BE, especially in the 625 I can probably do no harm. 

What'chall think?

 

[Josh M.]

If your load is otherwise legit - there is nothing wrong with post-sizing to assure easy chambering.

 

[dirty gary]

I occasionally run a final size die on certain calibers, but haven't done it on 45 ACP. Using a case gauge on finished rounds seems to keep me out of trouble.

 

[glowe]

I have several old S&W 38 Special Model 1905 M&Ps and some have tight chambers, so I have been doing the very same thing with all my 38 Special reloads. They chamber well in all my 1905s and function fine.

I do notice that this extra step takes out some of the crimp, but unless you are putting them in a lever action rifle, the bullet should be solid in the case.

 

[BruceM]

Why is it that the rounds are oversized? Did you find out what the problem was or just try for some kind of solution without thinking about it?



Bruce

 

[2hawk]

I guess I'm with Bruce...

I'm kinda wondering, with that weight bullet, were these sold for 45acp or 45 Colt? A lot of 45 Colt is sized at .454 or bigger, that may be the problem.

Pics of the bullets and loaded rounds would be helpful...

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

Well, I dont load HBWC, but 45 acp cases are pretty short to begin with and the case wall does get thicker closer to the rim. Seating it flush coupled with increasing wall thickness is probably whats giving you your bulges. Just my thoughts, like I said I've never attempted to load HBWC in 45.

 

[BruceM]

If they weigh 240 grains and are hollow base, they have to be awfully long and sit really deep in the case. I also have to say that resizing loaded round constructed with a bullet cast from a 20:1 alloy will definitely reshape the bullet after the fact-not a good idea IMO under any circumstances. Also, S&W .45 ACP revolvers are not known for really tight chambers as are some high end aftermarket 1911 barrels such as Kart.

.454" bullets were made mostly for Prewar guns, usually Colts I believe. .45 cal cast bullets are almost universally .452" in diameter. An exception to this would be when trying to work around a .45 cal revolver with oversized chamber throats.

What is the length of these bullets? They are an oddball.

Bruce

 

[ILTim]

Bullets are advertised as and mic at .452 and are .640 long

 

[lebomm]

Betcha your .45 ACP expander die has a .45 Colt expander plug with a longer nose. Then by the time you flare the case mouth, the plug encounters the case web and you get a bulge. I encountered this problem when loading .44 Russian in a .44 Spl die set. The solution was simply to taper the end of the expander plug a bit so it won't expand the web. hth

Larry

 

[Forrest r]

Those loads might be a little bit on the warm side with that heavy bullet filling that short case.

I've loaded a 220ghbwc in a taller 44spl case with 4.5g & 5.0g of bullseye & it put that bullet down range in a hurry.

If you take a empty 45apc case & fill it with salt & dump it in a empty 44spl case it will take 1 1/2 45acp cases of salt to fill 1 44spl case.

Just something to think about.

 

[ILTim]

Those loads might be a little bit on the warm side with that heavy bullet filling that short case.

That's what I've started wondering about. I think the charge is ok for the bullet weight, except that the reference loads were likely Keith style or SWC or JHP with a lot of lead out forward of the case, leaving greater case capacity.

I may load a few with 3.8 and 4.0 grains and fire them before touching these off.

Good to know that post-sizing is a valid idea. I tried it on a plated SWC that I loaded previously and the bullet came a bit loose and would turn in the case. Had to re-crimp that one.

I've loaded about 600 rounds of 200 grain plated SWC .45acp with no issue and no bulges, so the expander does not appear to be the problem. I'm pretty sure its the bullet length pushing into the thicker tapered section of the case, and the variation I'm getting is due to different case manufacturers. I don't think the case is bulging/squishing from lack of flare or other resistance during seating.

 

[Rule3]

I know, if ya gotta ask.....


I'm thinking it's ok to fire these but I wanted some other opinions first. I researched the **** out of this load and thought 4.0 - 4.8 grains bullseye under a 240 grain bullet should be fine in .45 acp, but I have no idea about appropriate cartridge overall length. No reference data for this bullet type. Thinking that my volume is pretty dang low, so pressures will be up, but at 4.2 gr BE, especially in the 625 I can probably do no harm.

What'chall think?

Where did you obtain your load data for 4.2 grains??

Cramming that bullet all the way in the case severely limits the case volume. Sounds like a big gamble to me.

Too me it just sounds like a BIG guess. Nothing to do with the post sizing issue.

 

[cfplinker]

Pull one of the bullets and measure its new diameter. You could have sized it down far enough that you could get some serious leading due to gas blowby.

I agree that with the reduced case volume you need to start low and work up your new load for this bullet. Does Matt's have any load data available?

 

[Daimler1989]

Hi,

you usually have a certain seating depth and according to that, a certain room for the propellant to develop powder pressure. When using a SWC bullet, this room is larger than with a HBWC. So you should be really careful using the same powder charge for bullets with the same weight, but so different shapes and seating depths like a SWC and a HBWC. With the latter, chamber pressure might increase dramatically because of much less room for the propellant to burn.

I did some 45 ACP loads with VV 320 and 230grs bullets and they were around 4.5 grs. So I suppose when using a HBWC of 240 grs, this load might be much too warm. I wouldn't dare to shoot it in my gun...

regards
Ulrich

 

[johngalt]

I've never had much luck with post-resizing. It does squeeze out the bulges, but it also ruins the accuracy. A better solution is to figure out why they are bulged in the first place and fix it there.

 

[mkflyfisherman]

Too chancy for me

I follow oal recommendation pretty closely in reloading. It seems to me that the op is creating a ready made setback condition that can increase pressures dramatically. With the heavy bullet, fast burning powder and having "squeezed" the bullet even tighter in the case there is no way I'd shoot that in any of my 45 acp's
Just my thoughts. /MK

 

[planojack]

A 240 grain HBWC bullet seems way out of reasonable for the .45 ACP. They would have to be much longer than normal for the round and have to be seated to cut into the powder space. I think I would save those bullets for the .45 Colt.

 

[BruceM]

I've never had much luck with post-resizing. It does squeeze out the bulges, but it also ruins the accuracy. A better solution is to figure out why they are bulged in the first place and fix it there.

++1

A 240 grain HBWC bullet seems way out of reasonable for the .45 ACP. They would have to be much longer than normal for the round and have to be seated to cut into the powder space. I think I would save those bullets for the .45 Colt.

I too have to believe that these are intended for .45 Colt applications. Also, the bullet manufacturer's website claims to be the only commercial outlet for these bullets. I have to wonder where the load data for these came from and who manufactured the mold.

Bruce

 

[ILTim]

Yeah, this is an oddball round I'm loading. Its not in any books, its a pretty unique bullet. I've seen references to people doing all kinds of strange things in 45 acp cases and I don't think this is way 'out there'.

I'm still convinced 4.2 grains of bullseye is pretty light and that the max would be at least 4.8 for this weight bullet. The effect of case capacity is the big unknown, but since I believe I'm well under max 45 ACP (21,000 PSI), and this gun can easily handle .45 ACP +P (23,000 PSI), .45 Super (28,000 PSI), and even .460 Rowland (40,000 PSI) its hard to imagine that I'm anywhere near a dangerous load.

The closest data I could find is all for round nose,

hdy 230 LRN BE 4.5-5.7
lee 230 Lead BE 3.6 (auto rim)
lee 230 FMJ BE 4.5 (auto rim)
lee 230 FMJ BE 5.0
lee 230 Lead BE 4.0
lee 240 FMJ BE 4.9-5.0
lee 260 FMJ BE 4.3-4.5
lyman 225 LRN BE 4.0-5.0
lyman 225 LRN BE 3.0-4.5 (auto rim)

-----

My favorite load so far is a Ranier plated 200 grain SWC over 5.6 grains of bullseye at 1.235-1.240 OAL. That should be good for right around 900fps and is comfortably below max according to Hornady (max 6.3) and Lyman (max 6.0). I can put 30 of them thru a ragged hole barely over 2" center to center at 10 yards, which is well beyond my normal shooting abilities.

I've fired the Buffalo Bore 32A load, a 255 grain hardcast flat point in auto rim at 1030 fps (according to BB) from my 4" tube. That sucker is hot, hotter than factory 45 colt with the same bullet.

I'm headed to the range this evening to find out how much bang I get and how accurate the HBWC's are.