Plum color on prewar cylinders

BibleronKJV

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
408
Reaction score
88
I have noted on some prewar M&P and others that the cylinders have taken on a plum color and am wondering if this is typical and what is the cause of it. The two specimens I have examined closely have original blue finish on the remainder of gun, but only the cylinder has the plum color. Thanks for any input on this phenomenon. Ron
 
Register to hide this ad
Its most commonly seen on refinished guns. Some cylinders have been reblued independent of the rest of the gun. The plum color is usually attributed to factors working together. They are heat treated to a different strength. That causes the blue solution to work differently on them. In a factory environment, it can be covered by using a fresh solution, a different time, or different heat. With a quality process like S&W or Colt uses its pretty conclusive of the plum part being refinished.

I sure have seen a bunch of SIG P210s in the P307-308000 range with plum slides. Those came from the factory that way. Too many to be aftermarket botching.
 
PLUM COLOR

Old steel is different from newer steel and often if newer rebluing methods are used on older steels, they come out in that plum color. I agree it was a partial reblue job. It could be corrected by a good smith familiar with the old steel process. Send it to Fords for a COMPLETE master reblue, it's only money.
 
Last edited:
The plum is indicative of a higher Nickel content in the steel. Post-War guns tend to show plum coloring of both the barrel and cylinder because both ane now a Nickel steel alloy. Model 28s are particularly susceptible to a variation in color between barrel, cylinder and the remainder of the gun as they age. The Nickel steel alloy is tougher and more wear resistant than the earlier alloys used by S&W.
 
Plum coloration can also be the result of inadequate temperature control of the bluing tank (too hot) or chemical contamination. I wouldn't expect that in a factory setting however.
 
I don't know if your a colt 1911 fan. Plum color on a postwar colt 1911 slide is very common. Colt switched to using a caustic blue process after ww2. Pre war S&W, Colt used a carbonia process. I can't recall ever seeing a plum original finish on a pre war colt or s&w using the carbonia blue process.
 
I will agree with Alk8944, My father purchased a new in the box Winchester 63 22lr for us in 1950. Over the years the barrel changed to a very uniform color of Plum. Years later a Winchester Rep. stated this was due to the barrel being nickel steel.
 
I have noted on some prewar M&P and others that the cylinders have taken on a plum color . . . Ron

Since you have specifically asked about Prewar M&Ps, I would agree with Dick and others who state it is most likely a refinish. One will never know for sure, but almost all prewar M&Ps out there have no indication of plum coloration on the cylinder. Even looking at my early post-war K frames, I can see no indication that the cylinder is changing color from original.
 
I don't know if your a colt 1911 fan. Plum color on a postwar colt 1911 slide is very common. Colt switched to using a caustic blue process after ww2. Pre war S&W, Colt used a carbonia process. I can't recall ever seeing a plum original finish on a pre war colt or s&w using the carbonia blue process.

My post war, pre-70 series Colt slide is that plum color. Didn't know why before. I kinda' like it. Interesting.
 
I have noted on some prewar M&P and others that the cylinders have taken on a plum color and am wondering if this is typical and what is the cause of it. The two specimens I have examined closely have original blue finish on the remainder of gun, but only the cylinder has the plum color. Thanks for any input on this phenomenon. Ron

Hello Ron
The reason for the Plum color on those cylinder's is due to the High Nickel content which was in the steel used back then of which the Bluing had issues penetrating right. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
 
Usually not left in the bluing tank long enough. I have a factory refi RM that has a plum cylinder

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 
A lot of the early Ruger revolvers tend to turn purple and that is with a factory finish.



Ruger folks kinda like it! :)


Yep. Ruger took pre-orders for new models in those days. They actually sent out a letter to everyone who'd ordered the first .357 Blackhawks about the plum loading gates and gave them the option of waiting for delivery until it was fixed. No one took em up on it.
 
Since you have specifically asked about Prewar M&Ps, I would agree with Dick and others who state it is most likely a refinish. One will never know for sure, but almost all prewar M&Ps out there have no indication of plum coloration on the cylinder. Even looking at my early post-war K frames, I can see no indication that the cylinder is changing color from original.
There was a Regulation Police .32 up for sale (pre-war) that had a plum colored cylinder, with normal blue on everything else. I would have bid for it, but for that. Made me suspect a reblue job.
 
good points above, and without actually looking carefully at the gun to compare the polishing marks, and detail of the entire gun, it could go either way, have seen many, many cylinders over the years from older guns that the cylinder alone was refinished, and if not done properly, could turn plum from the process...have seldom seen an "original" WW II Victory model, that the cylinder alone was 'plum',but one never knows as weapons need in a 'hurry' may have gone through the factory process too quickly, now days you tend to see the refinished cylinders or parts being of a darker, more black finish as the salts used today are such, more like black oxide, different formulations from the older 'nitre' blues...........
except for Ruger MOST all the other factories seldom shipped out guns with 'plum' parts, unless there was something 'wrong' with the process, as I recall a few years back one of the semi autos came through with plum frames as noted above..................
and yes, in time, various metals ,due to chemicals, ultraviolet light, ,etc, turn reddish, and Winchester and their 'nickel steel' was one of the culprits.
So look carefully at the entire guns finish, polishing,etc............no washed out holes, roll marks, rolled over corners, and edges, or especially pitting under the surface, dead giveaway of a 'reblue' gun or parts.
 
A lot of the early Ruger revolvers tend to turn purple and that is with a factory finish.

Ruger folks kinda like it! :)

My Security Six was an early model bought new in about 1971. Originally, all the parts matched. The cylinder (only) turned plum after several years and several thousand rounds. Over the past 20 years (and several thousand more rounds) the color hasn't changed.
 
Usually not left in the bluing tank long enough. I have a factory refi RM that has a plum cylinder

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Hello
This is very True or the Bluing salt's are weak. I was told this by Horace Ford who own's "Ford's Custom Gun Refinishing" In Florida he said that the Older S&W cylinder's are a Bugger to Blue as they have such a High content of Nickel in their steel cylinders of which the Bluing salt's does not like to penetrate well. Regards, Hammerdown
 
Back
Top