Plus P loads in a Model 10?

[Nickolas1]

I damaged a cylinder in my Model 10 after shooting some (light) Plus P reloads at the local in door range. I have a cartridge chamber in a 1973 4" model expand toward the rear of the cylinder located at the end of the scallop. There is no bulging or any exterior signs, but brass empties refuse to eject. Chromed empties have no problem.
Many people argue that should have not happened because a Model 10 can handle it.
Comments?

 

[Matt_X]

Let's see some photos and hopefully we can help you figure out the best way to get the brass out. Then we can do an analysis.

 

[stansdds]

Light +P? Thinking that would be standard pressure ammo. I cannot see how +P ammo could damage the cylinder of a model 10 unless the cartridge was overloaded and the excessive pressure bulged the chamber.

By the way, cartridge cases are not chrome plated. Plated brass is nickel plated.

 

[Greymann]

Reloads ?

 

[pasound]

Years ago I was shooting some WW 110gr Silvertip 38's - not +P. Gun was my 637. One was double charged, and the case was set back against the shield, and I couldn't get the cylinder open to clear it out. Nice lady at the range slipped a feeler gauge under the cartridge to give it something slick to turn against, and popped it open with the thumb latch and a soft thump with a rubber mallet to encourage it to open. A wood dowel into the chamber and a couple of whacks of a plastic hammer and the case came out. Gun amazingly was not damaged.

A limited amount of +P in a 10 is probably ok, but I would not make a habit of it. Never in a pre-war M&P or K38, and limited in the post war built. No sense abusing the antiques. S&W built models chambered in 357/38's for such use, and then later introduced 38's with "38+P" markings to certify they are safe with the higher pressures.

 

[cgt4570]

ANY model number marked Smith is ok with a light diet of +P. The gun won't grenade. It will just wear a little faster. They approved the .38HS cartridge (warmer than today's +P) for any pre-war K frame after heat treatment of the cylinder became standard. I don't remember the year it became standard, but it was early.
No reason to shoot more than a few +P loads to get a feel for it as a carry gun.

 

[rwsmith]

Definitely a problem with the ammo unless it is a very rare defect in the revolver, which if it has any age on it, should have showed itself long ago,. A model 10 should be able to take max +P loads. In fact, I experimented with some early 1970s Sierra (HOT) loads and mine didn't even breathe hard. Modern reloading books give 6 gr of Unique as max load for a 125 gr JHP. Sierra indicated a full grain higher than that. I didn't get to the full seven grains when working up the load. It just got more raucous than I cared for. Also, commercial +P ammo was noticeably stouter than standard loads back then. Again, the model 10 never breathed hard. I was sorry I traded mine in, so I bought another one later on.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I damaged a cylinder in my Model 10 after shooting some (light) Plus P reloads at the local in door range.

Comments?

Who made the reloads?

 

[alwslate]

Back in the late 60s and early 70s a local uniformed LEO had a gun and machine shop business in his home. Being a friend of his son I was invited to look at his machine shop. He showed me his set up to rechamber .38 spls to .357 and had done a number of conversions for his fellow officers. Never experienced any damaged guns he said. One guy even showed me his S&W model 36 that had been rechambered to .357 and suffered no damage. "Light +P " loads are not going to damage a model 10 cylinder.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

This was definitely an ammo issue. I was an active IDPA competitor back when the power factor was 125, and this required handloads to +P pressures. I put several thousand rounds each through a 10-8 and a 67-1 with no ill effects to either revolver.

Bottom line: Stay away from other people's reloads.

 

[max503]

Try giving the cylinder a good scrubbing with a brush and solvent.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Back in the late 60s and early 70s a local uniformed LEO had a gun and machine shop business in his home. Being a friend of his son I was invited to look at his machine shop. He showed me his set up to rechamber .38 spls to .357 and had done a number of conversions for his fellow officers. Never experienced any damaged guns he said. One guy even showed me his S&W model 36 that had been rechambered to .357 and suffered no damage. "Light +P " loads are not going to damage a model 10 cylinder.

HHHHHHHMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fish4bugs]

Without question an overload

 

[J56]

Consider the cylinder toast!
2. Considerations:
1. Mark the damaged “charge hole” (S&W’s term for the chamber), and use it as a 5-shooter…
Possibly lightly “peen” the area of the bolt recess cut with a padded ball peen hammer.

Never again use anything other than standard pressure loads.
2. Also, lay in a good store of Nickel plated brass.


A good cylinder will need fitting by a qualified gunsmith.

Cylinder Assembly, New Style Extractor w/Left Hand Threads, Blued

SMITH & WESSON 10-10, 10-11, 14-7, 15-8 Cylinder Assembly, New Style Extractor w/Left Hand Threads, Blued

www.gunpartscorp.com

 

[Alk8944]

I damaged a cylinder in my Model 10 after shooting some (light) Plus P reloads at the local in door range. I have a cartridge chamber in a 1973 4" model expand toward the rear of the cylinder located at the end of the scallop. There is no bulging or any exterior signs, but brass empties refuse to eject. Chromed empties have no problem.
Many people argue that should have not happened because a Model 10 can handle it.
Comments?

Two questions, 1, Since it was a handload I assume you loaded it. What was the exact load, powder, charge weight, bullet and primer? How do you charge your cases to assure that you did not have a double charge? Progressive presses are great for volume loading, but not without hazards like a double charge that can only be determined by visually observing the powder charge before loading the bullet!

Second, how did you manage to determine what the pressure level of the ammunition was? What makes you believe it was a "light +P load"?

Any model .38 M&P since at least 1972 is fully capable of safely handling .357 Magnum equivalent pressure without sustaining damage to the cylinder! In order to cause damage to the cylinder your loads had to be developing pressures well in excess of 40,000 PSI.

 

[Pisgah]

"Light +-P" = accidental double-load. No mystery...