Police like new M&P because ...

[SoCalDep]

But, but, but, how can this be? According to 4506517 only the blind kool aid drinkers have an M&P that works that well. You must work in an environmentally controlled clean room if your gun works that well. Because, in the real world the M&P won't stand up to real use. At least that's what 4506517 is telling us.

Yea, well....

My guns have spent a fair amount of time rolling in the dirt...Here's a pic of one after a recent active shooter instructor course. It never had a malfunction during the whole day of shooting while getting dirty like that. I blew it out with compressed air, wiped anything else I could see off with an old t-shirt, lubed it up, and started shooting it again. Not sure if I've cleaned it since.




We shoot lots:

 

[shawn mccarver]

Our local rag says that the police department like their new M&P 9mms because... "The difference is that the new gun can fire without the magazine, which police said will make it easier to pull the trigger."

Now, I don't know any LEO except Barney Fife that only carries one round in their service firearm.

They also like the fact "The new 9mm M&P without the magazine disconnect safety allows us to achieve a smoother trigger pull,"

My magazine disconnect safety doesn't have any impact at all on trigger pull.

Colorado Springs police trade get new handguns with 'smoother trigger pull'

Whatcha all think?

Sounds like either an idiot reporter or an idiot "department spokesman" to me.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Seems to me that the magazine disconnector in my old M39 would affect the trigger pull, although I don't remember for sure. I took mine out to match my PPK/S when I was carrying those two, but that was a long time ago, and when somebody suggested that I put the thing back, I did.... (Very simply, it's not a good idea to tamper with a manufacturer-supplied safety device, as silly as this one is.) Both range guns now.... (Well, in so far as a PPK/S can be .)

About the "can't be seen by a metal detector" post.... Huh? It's not a Glock , and there's enough steel in mine to get smaller weapons to orbit around it .... (Well, you get the idea.)

I wear a Streamlight Nano around my neck, and the last time through the body scanner at PIT, forgot to remove it. They spotted it, although didn't know what it was until I showed it to the TSA guy at the end of the line.

Just IMHO, but the full size M&P's make a fine replacement for an Officer's "service revolver" - like S&W's Model 10, and the Compacts are fine for soft clothes or concealed carry while having a lot of advantages over the old J-Frame guns (like the Chief's Special). In addition, the .40S&W, while not all that impressive, is a bit of a plus v.s. the .38Spl (and .357 Magnum) without being all that hard to get used to, even in the Compact guns.

Don't forget that these things are stamped out like, well, stamps, and anything can happen. The overall design allows for fairly easy adjustment or repair should something go really wrong, and generally they work, even if not quite right. (I'm a little concerned about the trigger spring issues, but the Apex RAM kit can help there.)

Regards,

 

[MSG Glenn]

My son's academy class, 65 strong, were issued new M&P 40 pistols with the improved triggers. The department had been using M&Ps for about 3 or 4 years & time for a change. He put at least 3000 rounds through it without a hitch, all Blazer ammo. When this model proved reliable they started issuing the new ones to all the rest of the officers. A friend of mine bought his old one back & sold it to me when he decided he wanted to keep his old Glock 22 which he bought back after he was issued the original M&Ps. There was some grumbling in the ranks at first but the unanimous opinion is that the M&Ps are better than the Glocks & the new M&Ps are better than the old ones. The only difference between old & new is the improved trigger. None had the magazine disconnect.

My son has my old Glock 23 & 21 & recommended that I go to M&P when we finally got a concealed carry law & needed a carry gun. I now have that used M&P 40 with a new 40C on order. He loves the Glocks but feels the M&P is a bit better.

 

[vegasgunhand]

I understand that the California Department of Wildlife has opted for the M&P 40 over thier Glock 22's.

 

[motomed]

Sorry to be so long winded....I understand that you guys love your M&Ps. Guess what? They aren't perfect. I base my opinion on personal experience with the gun in a tough environment, much tougher than what MOST folks here subject it to.....different people, different experiences. I think sometimes people take it too personal....almost as if I am personally attacking their decision to carry an M&P..if you like it carry it...is it perfect? Nope.

yawn.... just telling us your experience... and then insisting that anyone who has had a different experience must be a koolaid drinker and a delusional liar because you're an extreme operator and don't use custom holsters.... or some garbage like that....? Here's the deal... a whole lot of people carry an M&P all the time in all kinds of environments and most of those people find it to be as reliable as anything. I suspect it really bothers you that more and more departments successfully adopt the platform because every time it happens it makes it that much more likely that your issues are your issues, not the guns'

 

[shawn mccarver]

The department had been using M&Ps for about 3 or 4 years & time for a change.

I remember when Model 10s, 14s, 15s and 19s were used, not for three or four years, but for an entire career. So, now we change out our M&P pistols to get the new one with the audible click reset all because someone wants to teach and facilitate what Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn both refer to as a "training scar," that of shooting to re-set. Stupid.

 

[Riflemann]

I like my M&P because it's not a glock..........

 

[walkin' trails]

I like my M&Ps because they point better than a Glock, have a grip design that works better for me, and don't have that annoying trigger safety in the middle of the trigger face that rubs a blister after a couple hundred rounds of sustained shooting. I still carry a baby Glock for BUG and other activities because a) it is authorized for me to carry and a Shield is not, and b) it conceals a little better for me than an M&P Compact.

As far at the relationship between magazine disconnect safety and trigger pull, that was true of the Browning Hi Power. In order to get a decent trigger pull, you had to have the magazine disconnect removed. I haven't played with an M&P with a magazine disconnect so I don't know if they are afflicted with that problem, but I doubt it. Earlier M&Ps just didn't have as good a trigger as the later models.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Riflemann:

I'll second that ....

walkin' trails:

The magazine disconnect in the M&P blocks the sear when a magazine isn't present (or disengages the sear from the striker; my brain's on vacation tonight ).

If there's a magazine in the gun, the mag moves the block out of the way without any connection to the trigger (or sear).

There should be no trigger-pull issues at all.

I don't like those trigger safeties that Glock uses either. An unnecessary complication, IMHO. I don't like the M&P's split trigger either, but it's a lot more comfortable. Manufacturing costs ought to be about the same, so there are probably patent issues here.

Regards,

 

[stev32k]

I own Glock, M&P, Springfield, Les Baer, Colt, and CZ handguns in 9mm, .40 smith, and .45 ACP. I load my own ammo and shoot a lot - maybe 600 - 1,000 rounds some weeks.

I can honestly say I've never had reliability issues with any of them. They all go bang every time the trigger is pulled. Not counting the Les Baer and Colt 1911's the CZ 75 SP-01 Phantom 9mm is far and away the most accurate of the bunch. Using a shooting vise the CZ will put 5 shots inside a 3" circle at 25 yards. None of the others will come close to that. The M&P FS .40, Glock 9mm, and XD .40 will all shoot 4 - 5" groups at 25 yards. The M&P 9c is dead last with a 5 - 6" group.

As far as out of the box triggers the CZ is first in that category as well and the M&P last. The M&P FS .40 was so bad I replaced the factory trigger with Apex forward set sear parts and that gets it to first place. The CZ has an out of box trigger pull of 5.5 lbs and after about 200 rounds it dropped to 4.8 lbs. and is very smooth. The Glock and XD were about even in my opinion.

 

[MSG Glenn]

I remember when Model 10s, 14s, 15s and 19s were used, not for three or four years, but for an entire career. So, now we change out our M&P pistols to get the new one with the audible click reset all because someone wants to teach and facilitate what Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn both refer to as a "training scar," that of shooting to re-set. Stupid.

The audible click means nothing to all of the cops I know. I saw one of them yesterday & he wasn't even aware that it was there, lol. He said that he thought the new trigger was less gritty (which didn't bother him with the old one) & has that "breaking glass rod" feel when the trigger fires the gun similar to what he had on his rifle as an Army sniper which the old one (the one I now carry) didn't have. Not as pronounced of course but still there.

I don't think MPD made the update because of any improvements in the guns. This Chief we have seems to march to a different set of drums & decided a new issue was in order at a time when the PD is furloughing officers & crime is on the rise. Go figure.

 

[Jaymo]

Even though I own, and really like, a Ruger SR9, I've been seriously considering getting an M&P 9 and an XD 45.
Both guns shoot well and feel great in my hands, with the edge in comfortable feel going to the M&P. It feels like it was molded to my hand.
Glocks have never been comfortable in my hands, and have never shot well for me. So, I resisted the whole "perfection" Kool-Aid.

 

[MP9cBilly]

Apparently most find the Kool Aid quite delicious. I am merely pointing out MY experience. I think it is junk. I carry it DAILY and have shot 1000s of rounds through it. How about most people? Do they conceal carry it? Hmmm....wonder if those concealed carry M&Ps see half as much use as mine? I'm gonna say no...they probably ride in custom holsters. Mine? Mine's a working gun....not an object of worship.

Want to know what problems I've had? Use the search function. I have enumerated the many problems my agency has had with the M&P. Failures to fire, to extract, broken strikers, sights falling off, rusted slides, rusted mags, broken mag springs.....

Oh wait.....I still don't know what I'm talking about, right? Unlike many, I don't base my opinion of the M&P line on what I've read. I laugh everytime I say something adverse about the M&P line and someone says "well I read that _____ Department hasn't had any problems in XX,XXX rounds". Really? Really?

Im sure there are plenty LEOs here that carry an M&P on duty. They can only attest to THEIR experience with the gun, and I'm sure many have had positive experiences. Now I'm sure most M&Ps in their well cushioned protected environment NEVER malfunction.

And before we even go there....my squad LT has us break them down and clean them once a week, along with the shotguns and rifles. Don't want to hear about poor maintenance.

Before we were issued the M&P we were issued the 4566. Loved it. Did I anywhere mention there was a better gun than the M&P? Nope....

Sorry to be so long winded....I understand that you guys love your M&Ps. Guess what? They aren't perfect. I base my opinion on personal experience with the gun in a tough environment, much tougher than what MOST folks here subject it to.....different people, different experiences. I think sometimes people take it too personal....almost as if I am personally attacking their decision to carry an M&P..if you like it carry it...is it perfect? Nope.

What cop fires thousands of rounds at the range through a gun hates? hahaha What a load of bull. I suppose your department pays for that ammo for no reason at all because you aren't spending your own money.

People, he's not a cop, he doesn't even own an M&P. He's a lying troll… IGNORE HIM. He's a bitter Glock Gen 4 owner and is pissed his wunder gun doesn't get the awe it used to.

 

[18DAI]

Atlanta PD is dumping the m&p and going to Glocks.

I just heard from a NCSHP Trooper in court this AM that the North Carolina Highway patrol is looking for new pistols to replace their m&p 357sig guns. Extraction issues that S&W evidently can't fix. IIRC NCSHP just got those guns in 2009.

Sig is rumored to be the front runner for a replacement. They had Sigs previously. The FNP is supposedly being tested as well.

Evidently not ALL Police like the m&p.

 

[viceunit]

Glock and S&W aggressively offer to replace an entire departmental pistol inventory to keep the lead in the marketplace. It boosts civilian sales. Shortly before I retired we had the same scenario occur. S&W came knocking at the door offering to replace all of our Glock 22 and 23 with their product. Then Glock gets wind of it and comes along with a replacement package of the then new Gen 4 pistols. Glock got the nod (we have been with Glock since 1990, main reason) and I was issued a new G23 six months before retirement. Our contract allows us to purchase your duty pistol upon retirement, so I got a new G23 for $50.00.

Whatever reason the departments give to the media: better trigger, sights, grips, blah, blah, blah, it comes down to how much inventory a department can get for their $$.

 

[Doug M.]

It is interesting to hear that NCHP is having trouble with their M&P .357s. I was in a class down there in 2008, and there were two guys from the department that shot like monsters. They loved it and shot the heck out of their pistols - many many rounds in training and testing.

 

[DocSunShine]

It is interesting to hear that NCHP is having trouble with their M&P .357s. I was in a class down there in 2008, and there were two guys from the department that shot like monsters. They loved it and shot the heck out of their pistols - many many rounds in training and testing.

Sounds like SOME of the guns had issues, a small majority I'm sure...

 

[checkmyswag]

It's generally agreed that removing a mag disconnect improves trigger pull slightly. I don't know if a gauge would prove it.

Why are police going to M&P?

Fits small, medium and large hands.
Consistent trigger pull.
Thumb safety or no thumb safety.
Oh, and S&W is throwing the guns at the LE market for super cheap.

 

[Rastoff]

It's generally agreed that removing a mag disconnect improves trigger pull slightly.

I don't know who it is that "generally agrees" with that statement, but their findings are psychosomatic. I could see how someone might have a perception of improved trigger pull once they spent money to have the mag disconnect removed. Even so, it would be false because the mag disconnect has no affect on trigger pull.

Here's how the trigger works in an M&P:
Smith & Wesson: How the M&P Trigger Works - YouTube
Here you can see how the mag disconnect has no affect on the trigger once a mag is inserted.