Police search without a warrant.

[zerofournine]

I am going to try to keep this short, and give you just the highlights. I know there are many of you in law enforcement, and at least one lawyer on the forum. Maybe you can offer some words of wisdom.

My wife and I are renting a house. Our lease is up at the end of November. A month or so ago, we got a renewal notice in the mail. If we wanted to stay for another year, all we had to do was sign the form. Unfortunately, the form included the following change to the language of our original lease.

"You consent to a search at any time, by any law enforcement agency, including the presence of police canines under the control of law enforcement personnel."

I went to talk to the management company. I asked why they needed us to consent to this new policy, when we have never done anything wrong. They said if we had nothing to hide, we wouldn't resist signing it.

I came home, filled out the renewal form with the statement about law enforcement crossed out and initialed, and sent it in. They sent me back a strongly worded letter saying I would either sign the unaltered form, or move out. Again, in writing, they said if I had nothing to hide I would sign the form. According to the letter, they have had a problem with tenants in other properties, and this is their new policy to prevent trouble with problem tenants.

I contacted the ACLU and started looking for a new house to rent. The ACLU has since contacted me and told me there is not much they can do legally. As unethical as it may be to ask us to sign away our rights or get out, what they are doing is not illegal according to the ACLU. I was advised that I could always rescind my permission to search, if I was home when law enforcement came knocking.

So as of this week we are hoping to put a deposit down on a new place. It's frustrating as all heck. My wife and I have never been in any sort of legal trouble. We both hold medical licenses that require us to have clean records and no drug use. I work six days a week, and she works full time while going to school for her Master's degree in pediatric nursing and she does full time clinical hours on top of all that. Moving is a burden for us right now.

There isn't much more to say or do, except move and be done with it. I am profoundly frustrated at how much I have to worry about stuff I shouldn't have to worry about. These days, it seems like my ownership of firearms and my refusal to give blanket search powers to law enforcement makes me a sketchy individual in the eyes of some.

 

[Mule Packer]

I'm not an attorney, but the way I see it...the bottom line is it's not your house. As a result, the owners can do whatever they deem necessary to protect their property.

 

[georgepittenger]

Welcome to the new police state .

Have you attended an NFL game recently ?

I don't see anything unethical about the policy .

If you don't wish to comply - move .

Wish you well in a more friendly environment .


George

 

[arjay]

It's rotten,but you're stuck with it.There's a lot of wailing these days about our turn towards socialism.I'm more concerned about the fascists. ( yea,I know that's political)

 

[Hillbilly77]

"You consent to a search at any time, by any law enforcement agency, including the presence of police canines under the control of law enforcement personnel."

Are you kidding me?!


Ahh, yes. The new battle cry of those who seek to diminish our rights.
"If you're not doing anything wrong....."

It's a small thing called "The Fourth Amendment" that says your landlord can't force you to comply with police intrusion.

Shame on anybody that agrees with it or thinks there is nothing wrong with it.

I'd move. Period.
And I'd likely have a few choice four-letter words for the landlord.

 

[Arik]

They got burned by someone and unfortunately now they do this. While im not in favor of it I do understand them from a business perspective. My company we do the same thing. Once burned by a bad customer we will no longer take certain payments from anyone or do other things we normally did

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[old bear]

From a layperson,Sign it "under duress" and return it. I don't believe that you or anyone else can forced into giving up your fourth amendment privilege. If there was ever a search of the home you are renting I think there may be some very interesting issues addressed in court.

 

[GaryS]

This probably comes under contract law since they own the property and are leasing it to you. Unless this property is owned by a government entity you have no recourse but to sign or move.

I doubt this is targeted at you, it's likely to be a standard provision in their leases.

Similarly, this is why neither my wife nor I have any interest in moving to a property with a HOA or one of those over 55 developments with restrictions on how many cars you can own, the color of your fence, how many trash barrels, etc...

 

[Alpo]

Old bear - ever been on a military base? There's a sign at the gate that says something about "coming onto the base is giving permission for a search of your person and your vehicle".

If you are on a military base, as long as you are there you have no Fourth Amendment rights.

"But I don't want to give up any rights. I just want to go to the hospital. I just want to go grocery shopping."

Too bad, so sad. You're on base, they can search.

 

[poordevil]

I think.......While the property is rented by you and under your control, for example, the landlord can not let any unwarranted police enter the home. If police have warrant and you are not there and landlord lets them in, different story. And what or how is the landlord going to get the police to do a random search or your home? Reasonable suspicion and probable cause still exist, or should. Also a landlord himself can enter the property without a warrant with 24 hours notice, in most states.

 

[shouldazagged]

Is there a tenants' or renters' association where you live? If so, they can probably clarify your rights without the expense of an attorney. I'd certainly look into it, and double check before moving to see that the new place doesn't have the same clause in the agreement.

 

[Moonman]

Corporate Attorneys and the NEW METH COOKING ECONOMY folks are most probably to blame.

JMHO

MOONMAN

 

[v-13]

My thought would be that if you are paying rent from month to month and are not behind on it, that you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy from unauthorized entry. A search warrant would be necessary for LE to come in. Unless safety of the occupants from fire, etc. would require them to enter onto the premises. If you have nothing to hide, its pretty much a non issue. Thank the action of a few bad renters for what you have to go through.

 

[DR505]

I'm not an attorney, but the way I see it...the bottom line is it's not your house. As a result, the owners can do whatever they deem necessary to protect their property.

However, the tenant has privacy rights and 4th Amendment guarantees against unlawful searches and seizures. As the occupier of the house, you can rescind permission to search AT ANY TIME...even in the middle of a search. You can also limit the scope of a consent search to specific areas or rooms. If you had a guest staying with you and he or she had their own room, you cannot give permission to search that room!

With a warrant you are out of luck.

 

[DR505]

My thought would be that if you are paying rent from month to month and are not behind on it, that you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy from unauthorized entry. A search warrant would be necessary for LE to come in. Unless safety of the occupants from fire, etc. would require them to enter onto the premises. If you have nothing to hide, its pretty much a non issue. Thank the action of a few bad renters for what you have to go through.

I have nothing to hide and I won't let LE have blanket authority to search my premises...and I'm IN law enforcement! You wish to search my property, for anything or any reason, bring a warrant.

 

[DeadAye]

However, the tenant has privacy rights and 4th Amendment guarantees against unlawful searches and seizures. As the occupier of the house, you can rescind permission to search AT ANY TIME...even in the middle of a search. You can also limit the scope of a consent search to specific areas or rooms. If you had a guest staying with you and he or she had their own room, you cannot give permission to search that room!

With a warrant you are out of luck.

OTOH - If the cops show up and you give them permission to search then they don't need a warrant.
With the rental contract as described permission was already granted, therefore a search is NOT unlawful.

I'd move --- And I have NOTHING to hide.

 

[DR505]

OTOH - If the cops show up and you give them permission to search then they don't need a warrant.
With the rental contract as described permission was already granted, therefore a search is NOT unlawful.

I'd move --- And I have NOTHING to hide.

But you can rescind that permission when the cops show up. It doesn't matter what you signed previously. I've started consent searches with a signed permission form only to have the homeowner change his mind. Guess what, search over.

 

[BJoe]

Don't worry. You are as good as gold. No MATTER WHAT IS IN THE HOUSE you can pin it on any number of people that also have a key: landlord, maintenance people, former residents, ANY number of people will have keys.
If something is found under your bed you are screwed but tucked in a basement wall? Who's to say? Was a 'drug dog' used before you moved in?

 

[timn8er]

It looks like, as many others have posted, you're between a rock & a hard place. Since the house is their property they can make whatever rules they want. Its hard to believe, though, that if you have a good payment record, that they would choose to alienate you & run the risk of you not resigning. It may be a case of a few bad apples spoiling the whole barrel, in that they have had trouble with other renters so they made the change to cover all their renters. Plus with that "if you have nothing to hide" logic, they can scare off any potential new renters that are "shady". I would move before I would consent to anything like that!

 

[feralmerril]

I am not a lawyer or cop. I am a landlord but have a managment company take care of my rental too. Personaly I wouldnt want a contract worded like that. I would find a new place. BUT!! If you want to live where you are, whats to stop you from just signing the contract and IF they later want to search you just say no? Even though you signed the permission, yeah they could boot you out but why would you if you were a good renter? Now I am not sure if the judge would make you pay for the rest of the year after you left. Even if he did, try getting it! Right now some old renter owes me between 4 and 5 thousand. I know I will never get it even when I had the manager take them to court. I did it so at least I could have the tax deduction of the loss. Yeah, I could have jumped through the hoops to make their life miserable and ding their credit but didnt. I suppose thats the way it works for most landlords.
Might be that is a way to lose you by giving you conditions they dont think you will accept to get a friend or family member in there in a way you cant contest? That would free them up from you claiming they were prejudiced or whatever.