Police search without a warrant.

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DR505 said:
But you can rescind that permission when the cops show up. It doesn't matter what you signed previously. I've started consent searches with a signed permission form only to have the homeowner change his mind. Guess what, search over.
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What happens if you are not at home when the Police show up? Could the Management Company representative then let them in since you already consented?
 
Sign it and ignore it. Ask law enforcement for a warrant (if they show up, which they won't).
Your landlord is doing this because he can no longer "profile" prospective renters for fear of being charged with "racism, discrimination, profiling, redlining etc. etc.".
It's the only way a landlord can maybe keep crack dealers, thieves, meth cookers, illegal immigrant safehousers etc. out of the property.
If they make it a gun free zone, move out.

I also notice, your post didn't say the form gave permission to search "without a warrant". My understanding is that LEO would arrive with a warrant for the premises. Why wouldn't they have a warrant-- they're pretty easy to get.
 
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poordevil said:
I think.......While the property is rented by you and under your control, for example, the landlord can not let any unwarranted police enter the home. If police have warrant and you are not there and landlord lets them in, different story. And what or how is the landlord going to get the police to do a random search or your home? Reasonable suspicion and probable cause still exist, or should. Also a landlord himself can enter the property without a warrant with 24 hours notice, in most states.
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If I was the landlord, and called the cops and said, "They are growing marijuana in the basement of my rental property. Send the narcs", that's probable cause.

Then the cops says, "We can't search - your complaint is not enough to get a warrant".

Then I stick that lease in their face, with the pertinent paragraph circled. "You don't need a warrant. He has given written permission for a search".

If I was the tenant, and that was on the new lease, I'd move.

But looking at it from the property-owner's perspective. You're growing reefer in the basement, cooking meth in the kitchen, running whores out of the bedrooms? I want to be able to walk the cops in there and bust your butt before my property is destroyed.
 
I will never, ever, ever sign the lease renewal with that language in it. It's a principle thing. I shouldn't have to, and I am just not going to do it. So we move. It's frustrating, but I understand that's the way it has to be.

It only took my wife five minutes to come up with another solid reason why we will never sign it. We have no children. We do have two Boxer dogs that we treat like children. Sometimes we come home from work and they do not hear us enter the house. Once they realize we are home, they race down the hall with a pretty menacing set of barks. What if a cop was let in by the landlord and was surprised by a set of dogs barking, and he or she shot them both? My wife nearly cried just thinking about the possibility.

There is a third reason as well. My direct line of the family tree has men who fought in the Revolutionary war. My relatives fought in the Civil war. My grandfather fought in WWII. My dad served in the Marines during the Korean war. My uncle served in the Air Force. My faith has me believing that I am going to see these men again someday. Do I really want to have to explain to these men why I signed away the right that they fought to create and protect?
 
Sure the managment company has a key when you move in, however just get your own locks after you move in. I highly doubt even IF you sign that paper the managment or landlord would try to break and enter if you arent home! They would end up being a renter after they went to jail and lost everything. (If they didnt get shot trying). Bottom line I wouldnt want to rent from some owner like that.
 
If you have nothing to hide, there's no reason for them to search your place.

If you have no 4th Amendment rights as a renter, do you have any other rights at all? If you find yourself in a self defense situation, do you go get the landlord to do it for you? "Wait right here Mr. Homeinvader while I call the apartment manager, he will address your concerns."
 
Well, I do not like it, but the reality of it is, you are making it such that law enforcement does not have to get a warrant or provide a valid reason why they want one. However,if you are starting to see this now, and it is legal, pretty soon you see it incorporated as standard language on every lease or rental agreement.
 
zerofournine said:
I will never, ever, ever sign the lease renewal with that language in it. It's a principle thing. I shouldn't have to, and I am just not going to do it. So we move. It's frustrating, but I understand that's the way it has to be.

It only took my wife five minutes to come up with another solid reason why we will never sign it. We have no children. We do have two Boxer dogs that we treat like children. Sometimes we come home from work and they do not hear us enter the house. Once they realize we are home, they race down the hall with a pretty menacing set of barks. What if a cop was let in by the landlord and was surprised by a set of dogs barking, and he or she shot them both? My wife nearly cried just thinking about the possibility.

There is a third reason as well. My direct line of the family tree has men who fought in the Revolutionary war. My relatives fought in the Civil war. My grandfather fought in WWII. My dad served in the Marines during the Korean war. My uncle served in the Air Force. My faith has me believing that I am going to see these men again someday. Do I really want to have to explain to these men why I signed away the right that they fought to create and protect?
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...zerofournine:
Since you put it that way, I can see your point.
Nothing wrong with standing on principle.
 
old bear said:
From a layperson,Sign it "under duress" and return it. I don't believe that you or anyone else can forced into giving up your fourth amendment privilege. If there was ever a search of the home you are renting I think there may be some very interesting issues addressed in court.
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WRONG!!

You sign what you sign. If you don't like it move. Sorry.
Most leases have a clause that the landlord can enter any time he wants to to inspect and safeguard their property. Lots of time the popo use that as an excuse to get in-they get the landlord to "inspect" the property and if he sees something in "plain view" he can notify the police who then have PC to go in. The 4th amendment is slowly becoming a relic of the past-and you can thank the conservatives on the Supreme Court for that!

Seems like the liberals all hate the 2nd amendment but LOVE the rest of them -you know-the ones that coddle the criminals, like the 4th amendment :D.

These little problems seen to really get a life of their own and the next thing ya know we are getting into the "P" word :eek: you know-that which we are not to speak.
Me-I'm just sitting back and pondering my naval.

Getting back to the problem at hand-yes the clause is legal and no you don't have to sign it. But if you choose the later option you DO need to find another place to live. Like I told my son when he rented his first apartment and waded through one of those boiler plate leases the owners make the college kids sign-sure it ain't fair, but rule #1 is "Life ain't fair" and you'll just have to learn to put your garbage in the dumpster among other things :D
 
It's just like if they said you can't have guns in your apartment, or maybe a particular type of gun, or perhaps they don't like the religion of your mate, or her race. Just move.
 
I understand the owners trying to deter pot-heads and meth-cookers from renting. Boiler plate form for everybody.

Years ago knew the owner of a business that wondered how to keep drugs out of his building and parking lot.
Not the users and their money, just the drugs they might be carrying.

I suggested that he post a sing in the parking lot to indicate:
[THESE PREMISES ARE USED FOR DRUG DETECTION DOG TRAINING]

He liked the idea, but did not post such a sign.
 
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Old TexMex said:
Sign it and ignore it. Ask law enforcement for a warrant (if they show up, which they won't).
Your landlord is doing this because he can no longer "profile" prospective renters for fear of being charged with "racism, discrimination, profiling, redlining etc. etc.".
It's the only way a landlord can maybe keep crack dealers, thieves, meth cookers, illegal immigrant safehousers etc. out of the property.
If they make it a gun free zone, move out.

I also notice, your post didn't say the form gave permission to search "without a warrant". My understanding is that LEO would arrive with a warrant for the premises. Why wouldn't they have a warrant-- they're pretty easy to get.
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This comment not in reply to your full post--just the Gun Free Zone thing. The complex I live at--does not allow folks who own firearms to keep them there. However, what they dont know (in my case) will not hurt them, and I have my small collection with me.

Now for the topic starting post. Ive nothing to hide either but--if I was so incensed about their policy change? I would stay--but keep in mind another move if need be?
 
The way I understand warrants to work is not that it gives the LEO permission to search - but rather protects them if the search is fruitless. Or at least that's they way they were intended to work.

In other words - LEO has a reasonable suspicion that you are running drugs in your house - gets a warrant and conducts the search - finds nothing - the warrant protects the LEO and department from you suing them over any sort of false allegation or defamation etc.
Whereas - if the LEO has a reasonable or unreasonable suspicion of drug running at your house and kicks the door in and finds nothing then you can sue the LEO and department for compensation etc.
Or in other words - the warrant is the judge affirming that the LEO's suspicions are reasonable and cannot be questioned later - compared to LEO acting without warrant - if they find evidence of crime you are busted - if they don't the officer can land in trouble.
But it seems that TV and movies etc - an perhaps actual case law - makes it sound like you can be doing whatever illegal activity you like and if the long arm of the law catches you in the act and they don't have a warrant then it is not admissible as evidence against you.
 
Mcwsky09 said:
The way I understand warrants to work is not that it gives the LEO permission to search - but rather protects them if the search is fruitless. Or at least that's they way they were intended to work.
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Your understanding is faulty. Here is the text of the Fourth Amendment,

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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That is intended to protect the people from over reach and random searches by the government and it's agents.

The police can make arrests and conduct searches without a warrant, but only under specific circumstances. A random fishing expedition because the lessor wants to keep his property free from drugs is not one of them.
 
Obviously management has had problems with bad tenants in the past.
But, I highly doubt that the police would want to come in based on a rental agreement lease form.
I know that the agency I worked for wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. We don't like to get sued either.
 
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