Pre M32 terrier?

[Cal44]

I guess it's my day for running into interesting consignment guns.

A lgs has a 38 S&W for sale.

It's pre model number with a flat latch and ramp front sight.

I'm guessing it's from the early-mid 1950's, but don't know for sure.

It's a 2" snub, in good shooter condition.

The grips are probably not original and look like target grips.

They want $399 for it.

Good, bad, or in between?

 

[murphydog]

If original, the barrel dates it to after about 1953 and the lack of model stamping to before 1958. It sounds high in price to me but photos may help.

 

[hoosier4guns]

Hey Cal I hope this helps. I picked this up at a small gun shop in Ohio last year. It was on consignment..I was just browsing and spotted this in the used gun case. I bought it for $360 otd and was told I got a very good deal. It is a Terrier..all matching even the grips flat latch and is in very nice condition and numbers to 1955. here's a few pics. A fellow member,Hondo supplied me with the info. God bless. Rich.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I'm not sure how to answer that but I paid $400 for a post-Terrier .38 S&W J frame a couple of years ago.

 

[Cal44]

Will round butt J frame grips fit on these guns?

 

[Hondo44]

Will round butt J frame grips fit on these guns?

Cal,

Yes, I & J frame round butt (and square) stocks are the same size for the same vintage.

But your description doesn't pin down which model you saw. The flat latch and ramp sight/ribbed barrel could be a Pre Model 1953 "Improved" I frame or a Model of 1953 "New" I frame.

If it has the larger egg shaped trigger guard of Rich's, (hoosier4guns) shown above it's a Model of 1953 "New" I frame and takes the post 1953 I & J frame (same size) stocks.

If it has the smaller and rounder trigger guard it's an Improved I frame (pre Model 1953) and takes the earlier, 1/8" shorter I & J frame (same size) stocks.

The price at $399 really depends on which of the above it is and how much of a shooter it is; percentage of original finish left. More for the Improved and less for the New I.

 

[Cal44]

Cal,

Yes, I & J frame round butt (and square) stocks are the same size for the same vintage.

But your description doesn't pin down which model you saw. The flat latch and ramp sight/ribbed barrel could be a Pre Model 1953 "Improved" I frame or a Model of 1953 "New" I frame.

If it has the larger egg shaped trigger guard of Rich's, (hoosier4guns) shown above it's a Model of 1953 "New" I frame and takes the post 1953 I & J frame (same size) stocks.

If it has the smaller and rounder trigger guard it's an Improved I frame (pre Model 1953) and takes the earlier, 1/8" shorter I & J frame (same size) stocks.

The price at $399 really depends on which of the above it is and how much of a shooter it is; percentage of original finish left. More for the Improved and less for the New I.

Does anyone have both an Improved I and New I?

If so, could you post a picture of the two side by side so I can see the difference?

 

[jackvs1]

Here you go.

 

[Hondo44]

The top gun shown above is an Improved I frame, but an early version with round sight; NOT the later version with ramp sight and barrel rib, which is the ONLY Improved I frame that can be confused with a New I frame: both have the smaller, rounder trigger guard.

.38/32 Terrier Improved I frames: EARY version on left, LATE on right:
Photo by jcelect

Below are .32 POST WAR HAND EJECTOR/REGULATION POLICE MODELS, but the frame changes are the same as the .38 S&W I frames.

You need to compare the TOP RIGHT Improved I frame (5 screw) LATE version (which as you see, came with the Type 2 flat latch) to: the 2ND FROM TOP on the right, a Model of 1953 NEW I frame (4 screw); ignore the barrel lengths and grip shapes on both).

The bottom gun on the left is an Improved I frame (5 screw) EARLY version.


LEFT SIDE:
.32 HE pre-war I frame Model 1903 (2nd Model)-5th Change, 3 ¼” produced Oct. 16, 1913, top;
.32 Regulation Police Transitional Post war I Frame w/Rd sight, 3 ¼”, 6 screw, ‘double pinch’ thumb piece, rebated sq butt, c. 1949, 2nd on left;
.32 HE Pure post war ‘early’ Improved I Frame w/coil spring, Rd sight, 2”, 5 screw, ‘single pinch’ thumb piece, rd butt, c. late 1951, bottom. This version of the I frame has the same features as the early round sight Baby J/Chiefs.

RIGHT SIDE:
.32 HE ‘late’ Improved I w/ramp sight & barrel rib, 3”, 5 screw, 2nd style flat latch, rd butt, shipped c. 1953, top right;
.32 R.P. Model of 1953 New I frame, 3”, 4 screw, 2nd style flat latch, sq butt, c. 1954, 2nd on right;
.32 R.P. Target Transitional I, 4”, 6 screw, 4th (final type) thumb piece, rebated sq butt, one of 196 from 1957 only, 3rd;
.32 R.P. J frame Model 31-1, 3”, 3 screw, sq butt, 1980, bottom.

 

[Cal44]

The top gun shown above is an Improved I frame, but an early version with round sight; NOT the later version with ramp sight and barrel rib, which is the ONLY Improved I frame that can be confused with a New I frame: both have the smaller, rounder trigger guard.

.38/32 Terrier Improved I frames: EARY version on left, LATE on right:
Photo by jcelect

/QUOTE]

I went back to the LGS, and the terrier was still there.

I got a little more info.

The serial number is 74xxx. I think this puts it about 1955.

It has the rounded trigger guard and ramp front sight.

It's just like the picture on the right above.

The grip is not original. In fact, it's some sort of target grip for a square butt gun that has a longer grip frame than this gun. It's held in position by the pin and the grip screw.

Condition:

No rust or obvious scratches. Pretty good bluing coverage (say 85%). But the finish is dull. Needs a good cleaning.

Lock up is tight. Bore looks OK, but needs cleaning. No sign of damage in the bore. Cylinder and butt have matching numbers.

Price still $399.

To bring it back to original, I'd have to find a set of improved I frame short grips. That might be difficult.

 

[Hondo44]

Wow, the highest serial # in my database for an Improved I frame, 2nd version Terrier is 74497. So 74XXX could be a new high #.

Yep, those pre model 1953 I and J frame grips can be a little difficult to find, but they're out there.

And there's other pre model 1953 candidate guns besides the .38/32 Transitional and Improved I frame for the correct grips:

Baby J frame
.22/32 Transitional I frame
.32 Transitional I frame and Improved I frame

I'd start by posting a want ad in the classified on this forum for the all of the above.

 

[gordonrick]

My 1951 Terrier has the dullish blue finish. I've read that that was a common finish option back then (vs. the bright blue) and not necessarily a defect.

 

[Hondo44]

That's right. After the war until the mid 1950s, satin blue was standard (except on the 357 Magnum) and bright blue was optional at substantial extra cost until it became standard again after ~1955.