Pre model 15 with a 5" barrel?

[UCLALAW]

At least I think that's what this fella is.

I did some researching but not everything adds up; e.g. I read the serial numbers should only go to K 302 XXX for the specially made 5" inch barrel, but the serial# on this pistol is K 304 XXX, and the cylinder is not recessed like the other pre model number Smiths' I've seen. (And own)
In addition to the butt, it also has the serial number stamped underneath the barrel.
It has a small x on the frame where the model number S&Ws have the model# stamped, and I assume the numbers inside the crane are production numbers. There is also a faint, larger stamping of what looks to be the letters T G on the inside of the crane.

I've been referring to it (only to close friends and relatives) as a - Pre model 15, K-38 Combat Masterpiece - but I'm not really sure if that's correct.
Can anyone confirm the model of this pistol?

Also, if anyone knows the general history of this model I would appreciate any info as it may have a new home soon.
The pictures don't do it justice but here they are:

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[handejector]

Since it has a heavy barrel, I would call it a Pre-14- a K-38 Masterpiece, 5 inch.
You may have Pre model guns with recessed chambers, but not in 38 Special. 38 Specials did not have recessed chambers in the old days.

 

[H Richard]

It is possibly a 5" K38 ordered by the IL State Police for their shooting teams. Hopefully Linde will be along soon to identify it correctly for you. If so it is somewhat scarce.

 

[srgvaz]

It looks real sharp for it age.

 

[linde]

5" pre-14 Masterpiece

UCLALAW,

S&W did produce a 5" heavy barrel (pre-14) K38 Masterpiece with Baughman ramp front sight like yours. It was special ordered by the Illinois State Police in 1957. The ones I have seen are pre-model (not model marked), 4-screws and do not have the s/n on the barrel flat . . . but that was a transition period. The serial numbers are in a wide range including K304XXX. If you'll email me your full serial number, I will check it against the list of known serial numbers that were shipped to the ISP.

There were also other (non-cataloged) 5" heavy barrel K38s shipped to H.H. Harris (Chicago) and other S&W Dealers. Those within the ISP s/n range are considered ISP "overruns". Because the 5" was a very desireable barrel length, others were special ordered and shipped later to S&W dealers. Either way, they're a true Masterpiece to have and to hold

Not to confuse the subject but there was also a 5" 38 Combat Masterpiece specially ordered by the Missouri State Highway Patrol in 1952. It is a 5-screw with the tapered barrel and narrow barrel rib and, because of those features, are sometimes referred to as a pre-15.

Russ

 

[Engine49guy]

Beautiful handgun,
Is there any chance you can you take a picture from the business end showing the barrel rib contour?
Congrats !

 

[TAROMAN]

Nice find! I'd say that one deserves to be lettered.

 

[linde]

comparison photos

Beautiful handgun,
Is there any chance you can you take a picture from the business end showing the barrel rib contour?
Congrats !

Engine49guy,

Here are comparison photos of the K38 Heavy (thick walled w/wide rib) barrel on the left and the K38 (tapered w/narrow rib) barrel on the right. Even though neither 5" K38 was ever cataloged, let's call these pre-14 (on left) and pre-15 (on right).

Another distinction between the two is the transition between the frame and the barrel. K38 Heavy (pre-14) on the left and the K38 (pre-15) on the right.

I believe K304XXX is a Heavy but will ask UCLALAW to confirm that.

Russ

 

[HeloMt]

Hi,

Russ has helped me out with mine when I found it and I also got a factory letter. Mine went to a police supply company in S. California in 1957. The serial number is K3042XX, so would match up with what the OP has offerred. Roy described mine as part of the overrun for the ISP order. In any event, these are a very nice configuration, with the barrel length what I consider to be about perfect for a K frame. Kind of a neat addition, mine was shipped with targets and letters as such. They are "non-relief" and make it feel more like a "pre-14".

Randy

 

[roaddog28]

Great looking revolver. Like others have said looks to be a pre-14. This one deserves a letter to S&W for the history and the date of production.

Good luck,
Howard

 

[Dave T]

Ever since I saw my first 5" Model 27 I've believed that barrel length is the best looking and best balanced on the N-frames. Now I'm starting to think it is a fine barrel length for the K-frame as well. If I ever come across a 5" K-frame I may end my exclusive attraction for the Ns.

Dave

 

[Engine49guy]

Congrats on the pair and thanks for the end shots..
The same interesting differences exist between Models 17 and 18.
Cheers!

 

[UCLALAW]

Thanks for all the replies and info.

I believe K304XXX is a Heavy but will ask UCLALAW to confirm that.

The barrel is the heavy, like the pre-14 on the left of your photo.

If you'll email me your full serial number, I will check it against the list of known serial numbers that were shipped to the ISP.

Message sent.

 

[davepiatt]

I have the same gun, which looks like it was carried in a holster for forty years, and the butt is threaded for a lanyard loop. Did either of those police agencies have a lanyard loop installed or have one delivered from S&W?

 

[linde]

I have the same gun, which looks like it was carried in a holster for forty years, and the butt is threaded for a lanyard loop. Did either of those police agencies have a lanyard loop installed or have one delivered from S&W?

Dave,

I am not aware of either the MSHP or the ISP having a lanyard loop on any of their service revolvers . . . but that's not to say it never happened. In general, such agencies are pretty strong on uniformity so I can't imagine an individual trooper being able to add one while it was still in service.

In both cases, however, the trooper was able to purchase their 5" Combat Masterpieces (either initially in the case of the ISP or when they were retired from service in the case of the MSHP) so a lanyard ring could have been added later.

Check if the serial number was offset to accomodate the lanyard stud or whether it was drilled through the serial number. In most cases, if the lanyard ring was ordered by the agency, the factory would have offset the serial number. There are isolated cases where an individual finished gun in inventory was pulled and a lanyard ring added before it shipped . . . in which case the serial number would have been stamped on the frame under the grip panel - usually the left panel.

I would recommend you order a factory letter from S&W. The questions of who it shipped to and when, as well as what features it had when it left the factory will be answered . . . including if it originally had a 5" barrel and whether it had a lanyard ring.

If you can, please post pictures so we can all enjoy your Masterpiece.

Russ

 

[dick44]

5" K38

I have one in the K 30418x range.I have not lettered it.
But Roy told me it was shipped in 12/58 so it has to be a overrun.

dick44

 

[davepiatt]

Dave,

I am not aware of either the MSHP or the ISP having a lanyard loop on any of their service revolvers . . . but that's not to say it never happened. In general, such agencies are pretty strong on uniformity so I can't imagine an individual trooper being able to add one while it was still in service.

In both cases, however, the trooper was able to purchase their 5" Combat Masterpieces (either initially in the case of the ISP or when they were retired from service in the case of the MSHP) so a lanyard ring could have been added later.

Check if the serial number was offset to accomodate the lanyard stud or whether it was drilled through the serial number. In most cases, if the lanyard ring was ordered by the agency, the factory would have offset the serial number. There are isolated cases where an individual finished gun in inventory was pulled and a lanyard ring added before it shipped . . . in which case the serial number would have been stamped on the frame under the grip panel - usually the left panel.

I would recommend you order a factory letter from S&W. The questions of who it shipped to and when, as well as what features it had when it left the factory will be answered . . . including if it originally had a 5" barrel and whether it had a lanyard ring.

If you can, please post pictures so we can all enjoy your Masterpiece.

Russ

The camera crapped out on me last week (takes the camera company's battery, and it died), but the serial number is offset and the hole placed accordingly. There is no butt swivel present. When it came to me it had an old Hogue grip on it so the original is lost, but the other numbers match (barrel is unnumbered underneath). Mine is a K 273XXX, so not the same prefix but has the exact same sight configuration. Don't know if its maybe an earlier transition piece, but it looks like it has spent every day of its life in police holster in a Yukon snowstorm, it is not pretty by any standards.

 

[linde]

The camera crapped out on me last week (takes the camera company's battery, and it died), but the serial number is offset and the hole placed accordingly. There is no butt swivel present. When it came to me it had an old Hogue grip on it so the original is lost, but the other numbers match (barrel is unnumbered underneath). Mine is a K 273XXX, so not the same prefix but has the exact same sight configuration. Don't know if its maybe an earlier transition piece, but it looks like it has spent every day of its life in police holster in a Yukon snowstorm, it is not pretty by any standards.

Dave,

That could be a very interesting K38 . . . again, a factory letter is in order.

Given the research into the 5" K38 Heavy that has have done, I believe the offset s/n and lanyard hole suggests your gun was special ordered. The fact that it spent a lot of time in a holster simply tells me it worked for a living . . . and need not be pretty to admire.

Please tell me what kind of battery you need for that camera and I'll see if I can get you one. We really need pictures!

Russ

 

[davepiatt]

Dave,

That could be a very interesting K38 . . . again, a factory letter is in order.

Given the research into the 5" K38 Heavy that has have done, I believe the offset s/n and lanyard hole suggests your gun was special ordered. The fact that it spent a lot of time in a holster simply tells me it worked for a living . . . and need not be pretty to admire.

Please tell me what kind of battery you need for that camera and I'll see if I can get you one. We really need pictures!

Russ

Battery is en route, see if I can't get a cell phone pic up in the meantime.

 

[Allen-frame]

This is K302808 ,a gunbroker auction in December 2007. I believe the auctioners father died and he sold his gun.
It looks to have been carried and fired a bunch, but is still in top mechanical shape.

Congrats on yours UCLA, and pictures when you can.

Regards
Allen Frame