Price gouging or just good business?

[Beemerguy53]

...Apples and Oranges comparison. Same as people who bought their pre-model 27 for $50 selling it for $1500 or so. That gun has appreciated and has legitimate collectors value.

An AR which rolled off the factory lines 2 months ago which has no collectors value, sold to a wholesaler for $450, sold to an LGS for $500 and then marked up to $2500 is not appreciation, it's gouging.

With all due respect, I must disagree.

That AR which was made two months ago has indeed appreciated in value, and will have a great collector's value if it ends up being banned. Just because the appreciation in value took place over a couple of months rather than a couple of decades doesn't mean it isn't real.

 

[Beemerguy53]

I will be at OGCA this weekend trying to make an outrageous profit selling an unfired Bushmaster AR-15 in 6.8...Do I feel bad about it, nope, not one dang bit. I will not be placing a gun to the head of a buyer, if someone wishes to pay my asking price, more power to him. All profits will be used to buy Smith & Wesson and Colt revolvers.

Absent force, coercion, or deception, you can ask whatever you want for whatever you wish to sell. The "correct" price for any object is whatever the buyer and seller agree upon.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Watch ammo prices. I believe that BHO is going to start making ammo difficult to obtain. They will make you jump thru hoops to buy it; restrict the amount you can purchase; and start hitting the manufacturers of primers. That's why ammo prices are moving up and availability will be "challenging". Keep what you got - it's going to be hard to get. They can't control the guns but if you've got nothing to shoot.....and then google UD Govt. ammo purchases in 2012 and ask yourself why they need ammo in the Social Security Adminstration; why HHS needs ammo; why all hollow point purchases?? What are they up to.......

There's nothing mysterious or sinister about government ammo purchases.

Every agency in the federal government, from Social Security to the Federal Aviation Administration to the Food and Drug Administration, has criminal investigators assigned to it. Those folks are sworn and armed LEOs, and they train and qualify with the same ammo they carry.

 

[KJM]

A point that has not been brought up here is that these gunstores you see as "gouging" are NOT going to be restocking anytime soon. If this kept up for a long time, you would see a LOT of small stores CLOSE.

If they get ten times the price for a Magazine NOW.......they may not see another for 9 months. I was in a store during the 08 craze. There was nothing to be had but revolvers, Kel tec 380s, and Ruger 380s. Ammo? Ha. Couldn't even get 22 in.
Brownells sold 3 1/2 years worth of Magazines in 72 hours.

You think it may take awhile to catch up to production? Will something be passed in the meantime? And.............. ARE they even TRYING to create as many as they can, or might the vendors be cranking em out just fast enough to dump them untill THEY know if they will have to throw them all in the dumpster.

I say if someone who did not have the foresight wants one of MY Ar's now, or any of MY mags, the price is triple. You don't have to pay it. Maybe it will go like the Full Auto's did, and these semis will be wort 10k before Its over. Who knows. And maybe nothing will happen and they will fall back to 700... which by the way, when they did, the gunshp I was at saw NONE coming back in droves like you guys think.

<Most paying the price now were guys on the fence about one, and this gave them the extra push.

It is about SUPPLY AND DEMAND, not price gouging. The prices are now pretty much the same across the board, and talking about little gunshops gouging is not even worth it at this point, because none of them have any of this stuff anymore anyway.

Go try and buy a Generator in the middle of a hurricane and see where the price is.

 

[Beemerguy53]

^^^ Excellent summary ^^^

This is the real reason why pick-up trucks are now $40K and gas is $3/gallon. Any "thing" is only worth what somebody is willing to "pay". In the moment it is bought, that is the true value of the item. Regardless of what the item may be. When this is housing, or stocks, we say "it's the market" - when it's guns and ammo we say "it's gouging".

I don't like it, but there it is.

I've been a lifelong car and motorcycle enthusiast. Last spring, I became interested in Volkswagen's new Golf R. All-wheel-drive, 256 horsepower, advanced electronics, great road test reviews, etc.

But...R-Model Golfs are made only every four years, and this time around, VW is making only 5000 of them. When my local dealer told me they wanted $3000 over the sticker price for the Golf R, I thanked them and walked away; I won't pay a premium to be the first on my block to have something new, no matter how much I like it.

Just before Thanksgiving, my son (also a car buff) mentioned to me that supply evidently had caught up with demand, and VW dealers were now discounting the Golf R. I went back to the local dealer, and bought a new Golf R for $2000 less than the sticker. So...I paid $5000 less than someone who bought the same car just 7 months ago.

Timing is everything in a free market, whether we are talking about buying stocks, guns, or cars. High demand and low supply equals higher prices.

 

[Stevie]

Price gouging only applies to stuff you really..really need..like food..fuel..toilet paper..stuff like that.

You can think of paying inflated prices for guns/mags/ammo in a crazed market as paying an idiot tax

Should been stocked up already...or be patient enough to wait for things to calm down

Nobody is twisting arms forcing anybody to buy AR rifles..stupidity is driving the market..stupid makes smart folks money.

 

[jaykellogg]

That extra $3000 for a Golf R is called an "idiot tax"

I submit that AR's have not gone up in value as of 12/31/2012. What is going on is speculation. If they are banned then they will go up in value. If not, the price will sink to what ever the manufacturers sell them for. I would not pay much of a premium right now for fear I would be stuck with it. I did order 10 30 round pmags for my use, not to resell.

 

[don1958]

If you had an original, mint condition, 69 Z-28. Would you sell it for what it originally sold for, or for what the market would bring today?

No way would I sell a mint '69 Z-28!
I'm just sayin'.

 

[Beemerguy53]

That extra $3000 for a Golf R is called an "idiot tax"

I submit that AR's have not gone up in value as of 12/31/2012. What is going on is speculation. If they are banned then they will go up in value. If not, the price will sink to what ever the manufacturers sell them for. I would not pay much of a premium right now for fear I would be stuck with it. I did order 10 30 round pmags for my use, not to resell.

Like you, I won't pay a premium for something...but that doesn't mean someone else is an "idiot" because he chooses to pay that premium. If a competent person chooses to buy something, and pay more for it than I would, well, different strokes for different folks.

"Value" is whatever someone is willing to pay for a product at any given time. As of 12/31, ARs have indeed gone up in value. The people buying them are betting that they will hold that value, but it is indisputable that their value is greater than it was just a month ago.

(A word about "value": the word means different things to different people. I've been collecting aviation and space artifacts and autographs since I was a kid. I have a book on B17s that is autographed by five men who were awarded the Medal of Honor in World War II for their heroism on board those legendary bombers. That book has no intrinsic value, and to someone who doesn't understand its significance, it's just an old book. But I wouldn't part with it for $10,000. I feel the same way about some of the guns I own, and I'm sure most of us can relate to that.)

 

[Kanewpadle]

Supply and demand. Fair market value. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of those who procrastinated and delayed buying. It's the American way!

And I don't understand the complaining. If your one that waited and paid two or three times what you should have, who's fault is that? Can't find ammo? Should have bought sooner!

I can't begrudge anyone that tries to make a buck when they can. Especially a small business owner. It's difficult enough to make a living. There's not much of a mark up on new guns so who wouldn't sell for more when they can?

The panic buyers deserve to pay more. As stated in a previous post, what will those small gun shops have to sell when they don't get resupplied? So knowing that, you bet your rear I would sell for more! And do you think those small mom and pop shops get resupplied first? NO! Everything is "ALLOCATED" to big buyers such as Cabelas etc.....

So, I won't complain. I simply marvel at those buyers that are STILL walking into gun shops expecting to see semi auto rifles and ammo on the shelves. And when told that everything is sold out they say "just order me one"!

They don't understand supply and demand or fair market value and won't complain about it until it works against them.

 

[jaykellogg]

Don't forget that Dicks and WalMart are no longer selling black rifles. There may be other big retailers who prefer to avoid the publicity associated with black rifles. This may help out the smaller retailers, but I would say that WalMart competition was keeping the price low.

I cannot say I completely disagree with the decision to not sell black rifles. I can envision reporters coming to a store where a murder weapon was purchased. I can also envision lawsuits.

 

[4506517]

I do notice that those paying the exorbitant prices on auctions are often folks with very few transactions or folks that haven't been registered very long. That would seem to indicate folks that didn't worry before are worrying now.

 

[garfy]

Most of these "shortage" problems occur because people either are hoarding or buying to sell and make a big profit. Here, whenever there's talk of a potential dock strike, we suddenly run out of rice and toilet paper very quickly. Why? Not because people are buying what they need but because of panic, fear, the unknown. If people would just keep their normal purchases as if nothing was happening, there would be enough rice and TP for everyone here. The same goes for guns and ammo; if people really only bought what they NEED instead of stockpiling like an enemy was going to be on foot in our town, we'd be fine. I recently wanted to buy a 10 round mag for my AR because I wanted a flush mount rather than my 30 round mags that stick out so far.... can't find a single one anywhere. Funny, used to be that the 20 and 30 round ones were the ones everyone wanted... Go figure.

 

[arjay]

I suspect there are a lot of people paying top dollar for ARs right now and in a year they'll own a gun that's either worth half of what they paid or that they can't legally sell.

 

[Stevie]

Don't forget that Dicks and WalMart are no longer selling black rifles. There may be other big retailers who prefer to avoid the publicity associated with black rifles. This may help out the smaller retailers, but I would say that WalMart competition was keeping the price low.

I cannot say I completely disagree with the decision to not sell black rifles. I can envision reporters coming to a store where a murder weapon was purchased. I can also envision lawsuits.

As a popular and thoroughly accepted sporting armament for everybody from 12 year old girls to retirees...you would think dropping the AR from your sporting store's inventory would be like a 1960's gunstore dropping the Winchester 30-30!!!....(ask Jim Zumbo about that AR 'thang'!)

I mean really??...Just how 'strong' do you believe Dick's stance is in support of it's shooting customers?

Head-honchos at Dick's crumbled to the left. I've got a brand-new Dick's store not too far away..and had looked forward to visiting. Now...I just got no enthusiasm for gracing their doors...It's sad

 

[Damn Yankee]

On one of the auction sites a Grim Reaper lower was offered at a Buy now price for $450.00 and it only got to $405.00 with 26 bids.

He has re listed it and now it is only at $195.00.

 

[jaykellogg]

I have seen lowers cheaper than that. I wouldn't really want to buy an AR right now although most of the stuff likely to get banned would be on the upper. Some parts are very hard to get right now like bolt carriers.

 

[moe l.]

There's nothing mysterious or sinister about government ammo purchases.

Every agency in the federal government, from Social Security to the Federal Aviation Administration to the Food and Drug Administration, has criminal investigators assigned to it. Those folks are sworn and armed LEOs, and they train and qualify with the same ammo they carry.

OK, read this just to be informed:

Who Does The Government Intend To Shoot? | The Daily Caller

» DHS Purchases 200 Million More Rounds of Ammunition Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[Sebago Son]

Much Hoopla in the Short Attention Span Theater that the American public has become.

Anyone that didn't see this coming over the horizon for at least the past six years has been living under a rock.

I have to laugh at those folks who complain about gouging when discussing current AR/AK/Ammo/Magazine prices in this, now the seller's market ... they are usually the same guys that would absolutely revel in slivering the same seller to death on a deal during a buyer's marker, and then demand "a box of shells" thrown in...

 

[Aticus]

I read this thread with interest since I work in a local LGS.

My thoughts on price gouging? I don't care. What we have to remember is we, the consumer, can control the retail price of anything. If we don't like the price don't buy the product. (See the post above about the VW Golf.) A business can only make an "unreasonable" profit on a product if someone is willing to buy the product. Bottom line? If you don't like the price don't buy. If you must have a product for whatever reason then be willing to pay for it.

To say someone's an idiot for paying too much for a product is your opinion and we all know the ending to the little saying about opinions.