vonn
US Veteran
Just saw a pitch on the news about using more contract troops in Afghanistan (mercenaries). Not real sure what I think about the idea. Lot of veterans here so what do you think?
Privatization of military
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sureshotbob
Member
I'm not a veteran but I don't think it's a good thing.
Question:
Has the drinking water in Washington D.C. been tested lately ?
Has the drinking water in Washington D.C. been tested lately ?
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Call it privatization if you will. Call the private soldiers contractors if you like. Those willing to engage in combat in return for pay are properly known as mercenaries. A mercenary's loyalty is owned by the employer, not by a nation, not by an ideology.
This could prove to be a very dangerous idea.
This could prove to be a very dangerous idea.
Mixed feelings here.
Depends upon the contract troops' mission.
Are they to be "gunners" on the front lines, or are they to be behind the lines working in "supposedly" non-combat roles?
Of course everyone in a theater of operation is susceptible to being exposed to attack, but the behind the lines tasks are often a bit "safer" (maybe?).
Need more details to make an informed contribution.
Depends upon the contract troops' mission.
Are they to be "gunners" on the front lines, or are they to be behind the lines working in "supposedly" non-combat roles?
Of course everyone in a theater of operation is susceptible to being exposed to attack, but the behind the lines tasks are often a bit "safer" (maybe?).
Need more details to make an informed contribution.
I've seen a lot of privatization of government services here in Kansas. Specifically social welfare agencies. While it looks good on paper, it simply doesn't work well. One has to remember, the provider is the lowest bidder and service suffers.
If the government follows its usual procedure, then this would be true.
I think the defense of our country should not be in the hands of those who are simply paid to do so. Granted, some enter the service for a variety of reasons, and patriotism may not be at the forefront of their reasons, if it's there at all...but the structure and main body of the military service is made up of people who don't see service as just a paycheck.
So no, I do not think the military should be privatized.
double-dipper
Member
VONN- First I've heard of this so I had to do some research and this is what I found. "ABC News "This Week" Co-Anchor and Chief Global Affairs Correspondent Martha Raddatz asked John Bolton about possibly privatizing some part of what is now America's longest war Afghanistan" Right on queue some of the news outlets that are less than honest spin it up for ratings. I really doubt it would ever happen.
I wouldn't be adverse to re-instating the draft in some form. So many of our youth are misdirected, unemployed, in trouble, etc, a couple years of military (or governmental) service would do most of them a lot of good. Maybe give them some appreciation for their country and freedom.
hoosierone
Member
I also support a draft. In a way, it gets a lot more Americans aware of what's going on in the world as they would have skin in the game.
My definition of a lot of the whacked out youth we see in the news is that they are fugitives from military training centers. I went Army shortly after turning 18. At the time I didn't realize it, but it turned out to be a very positive influence in my life.
My definition of a lot of the whacked out youth we see in the news is that they are fugitives from military training centers. I went Army shortly after turning 18. At the time I didn't realize it, but it turned out to be a very positive influence in my life.
The draft won't happen again.Too many of us saw how that worked out in the 60s.As far as using mercenaries on a larger scale than we already do,the Swiss realized 500 yrs ago that those guys come back home to the farm and don't just start farming again.They have ideas.This business of sending our troops out on multiple deployments doesn't strike me as particularly sane either
I think the draft should be reinstated for all young men.
With all the stories about the Military having to lower their standards real fighting men may be harder to find.
What are we still doing in Afghanistan?
What should be feared more Mercenaries or The Military Industrial Complex?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What are we still doing in Afghanistan?
What should be feared more Mercenaries or The Military Industrial Complex?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree. The military itself doesn't want a draft. They have found that a smaller professional military of volunteers is more effective than a large body of conscripts who don't want to be there.
Personally, I view the draft as slavery, and is inconsistent with Liberty, which this nation claims to revere. George Washington fought the revolution with volunteers.
The military has enough challenges without also imposing the duty of babysitter for misguided youths.
LOL I like it.......... an army of "Wild Geese".... new books; new movies by Wilber Smith .......
................... just like using United Nations Peace Keepers. World Peace!!!!
I also like the old system...... go fight a war........ win............ come home!!!!!!!!
A never ending war with multiple deployments.....only destroys our best of the best!
................... just like using United Nations Peace Keepers. World Peace!!!!
I also like the old system...... go fight a war........ win............ come home!!!!!!!!
A never ending war with multiple deployments.....only destroys our best of the best!
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When citizens get to the point they are to "lazy" to fight for their
country it's been the downfall of empires. Mercs are going to do
the bidding of who pays them. Just like all the Multi National
Corps that are running things today they will end up having no
sense of nationality.
I think ending the draft was bad idea. The military was influence
that helped a lot of guys learn responsibility and honor. Now the
Military has been turned into a big social engineering program
by politicians.
We are lucky to have people still dedicated to serve this country
while others are tearing it down.
country it's been the downfall of empires. Mercs are going to do
the bidding of who pays them. Just like all the Multi National
Corps that are running things today they will end up having no
sense of nationality.
I think ending the draft was bad idea. The military was influence
that helped a lot of guys learn responsibility and honor. Now the
Military has been turned into a big social engineering program
by politicians.
We are lucky to have people still dedicated to serve this country
while others are tearing it down.
El Biblioitecario
Member
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I'd support such a program...if the Sultan of Afganistan (the majority of whose GNP comes from US handouts) were told that he is liable for the bill.
The privitazation of the military to fight in Afghanistan is Erik Prince's idea. Prince is the Blackwater guy. Turns out he is the brother of Betsy DeVos, the Secretary of Education.
I think the advantage of the draft is every family with a son has serious skin in the game. Wars would not be fought lightly, and they would likely end more quickly. And it seems fundamentally unfair to me that the burden, with an all volunteer army, falls on such a small percentage of the population. (I have read it is something like one or two percent of families.)
That said, I am grateful that there has been no draft during the lifetime of my three sons.
So, I am conflicted about it...
I think the advantage of the draft is every family with a son has serious skin in the game. Wars would not be fought lightly, and they would likely end more quickly. And it seems fundamentally unfair to me that the burden, with an all volunteer army, falls on such a small percentage of the population. (I have read it is something like one or two percent of families.)
That said, I am grateful that there has been no draft during the lifetime of my three sons.
So, I am conflicted about it...
It will happen
I think the Draft comes back because of simple economics. All Volunteer cost more in pay. They also are short on bodies.
I think the Draft comes back because of simple economics. All Volunteer cost more in pay. They also are short on bodies.
LOL I like it.......... an army of "Wild Geese".... new books now movies by Wilber Smith .......
................... just like using United Nations Peace Keepers. World Peace!!!!
I also like the old system...... go fight a war........ win............ come home!!!!!!!!
A never ending war with multiple deployments.....only destroys our best of the best!
These never ending wars and deployments are very destructive to our country, both to the people serving and our resources. The US spends more on defense than the next top 10 combined.
LVSteve
Member
500SNW
Member
Normally I have problems with the VICE tv channel...but I think this is a pretty decent documentary on private armies.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaSD8oFBZE[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaSD8oFBZE[/ame]
Norm Augustine, CEO of Martin Marietta, in a preface to a book on the aerospace industry, commented, to paraphrase, "It's the Military Industrial Complex in times of peace, but the Arsenal of Democracy in wartime."
Sort of like Kipling's "Tommy."
...For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Chuck him out, the brute!''
But it's ``Saviour of 'is country,'' when the guns begin to shoot...
Sort of like Kipling's "Tommy."
...For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Chuck him out, the brute!''
But it's ``Saviour of 'is country,'' when the guns begin to shoot...
nachogrande
Member
"IT WORKS FOR ME".
SAYS Dick Chenney.
SAYS Dick Chenney.
I voluntarily enlisted in 1969, right out of high school, and I can definitely say that my experience in the service was a very positive impact on my life. I didn't do well in high school, not because of aptitude, but because of attitude. I started college immediately on my discharge, and I was on the Dean's Honor Roll every semester until I graduated.
I think everyone should be required to serve their country...if not in the military, in some capacity such as the Peace Corps or other projects to benefit America and Americans.
I also think that "limited engagements" are terrible. If we are going to fight, then we should fight to win with all our might, or stay home.
I think everyone should be required to serve their country...if not in the military, in some capacity such as the Peace Corps or other projects to benefit America and Americans.
I also think that "limited engagements" are terrible. If we are going to fight, then we should fight to win with all our might, or stay home.
I am a firm believer that able-minded and able-bodied citizens of the U.S.A. owe this country some sort of service/self sacrifice. Be it military, or something of the sorts of the Peace Corps, or even volunteering to be a firefighter, or a cyber crime fighter....... something.
As for mercenaries, I condone it only if the 'need' by far outweighs the available manpower. Think about it..... where do many of our mercenaries come from in the first place....... many are well trained American military vets. Paying professionals to fight our wars is not my cup-o-tea. As said above, let's get some skin in the game, and maybe we will think twice about our actions and involvements.....
As for mercenaries, I condone it only if the 'need' by far outweighs the available manpower. Think about it..... where do many of our mercenaries come from in the first place....... many are well trained American military vets. Paying professionals to fight our wars is not my cup-o-tea. As said above, let's get some skin in the game, and maybe we will think twice about our actions and involvements.....
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That's very good. Thanks! Well worth 15 minutes to watch.
I think there is a difference between providing personal security, bodyguard work, and spearheading a government, or political faction's, military. But the boundaries, the documentary short points out, easily get fuzzy
E.g., as one of the former mercenaries notes, there is a very fine line between acting defensively and acting offensively. (He comments that any experienced soldier, hired to act defensively, is still gonna think, "Rather than sitting here waiting for those guys to come shoot us, let's get out there and shoot them first.")
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medic15al
Member
A mandatory service w/ training in the Police, Fire, or Emergency Medical Services w/ option to make a career of it if wanted. Add the same benefits of retirement, medical, and education as the military. This will help with manpower shortage in the nation. This does include military service as well.
A useful byproduct of the draft was that many politicians actually had some experience in the military, and it served them well in crafting laws and policies for the most part, with a few noticeable exceptions - people who could not empty **** from a boot even if the instructions were written on the sole.
Today, politicians who have served in the military are few and far between, resulting, with a few notable good exceptions, in many who have disdain for the military and ignore the incredible sacrifices of those who have pledged their lives, if necessary, for our country.
Nope - paid substitutes for actual servicemen and women are also, in most cases, poor substitutes. The incentives are far different.
John
Today, politicians who have served in the military are few and far between, resulting, with a few notable good exceptions, in many who have disdain for the military and ignore the incredible sacrifices of those who have pledged their lives, if necessary, for our country.
Nope - paid substitutes for actual servicemen and women are also, in most cases, poor substitutes. The incentives are far different.
John
