Problem with M&P 10mm + Customer Service Nightmare

[rosewood]

Buddy of mine bought one of the 1st 10mm Glocks when they came out many moons ago. He had issues with it and took several trips to the factory before they got the problem fixed. It was a problem they didn't have with any other model. Can't remember exactly what the issue was, but seems like it had to do with feeding. Growing pains. Hopefully S&W will figure this one out and fix it on future models.

Rosewood

 

[phm14]

I tested my MP10 a couple of months ago. Loaded up all my mags with different ammo, and it choked all over the place. I don't recall anything round that ran without issues. FTF, w rounds hanging on the top of the chamber. May have had some other issues too, but I'll have to review the pics I took. Haven't bothered to send it in, since there doesn't seem to be a solution, yet. Tried several different recoil springs, and seemed to have fewer problems with the stock recoil spring.

 

[Autonomous]

Send it in if for no other reason than to make S&W pay shipping both ways.
Chances are it may even get fixed!

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

It seems S&W has a spotty record when it comes to making 10mm pistols work properly. The early FBI guns had issues and now their Tupperware guns have problems. Maybe S&W isn't fully testing their designs before beginning production to make sure there are no issues? If so...they wouldn't be the first gun maker to make that mistake...or maker of any consumer product.

When I attended S&W armorer school (this was back in days of the Sigma)...we got a tour of the factory. We were told the only part of the Sigma they actually made was the barrels...everything else came from outside vendors which seems to be par for the course.

Maybe Smith needs to tighten up testing and QC on parts coming from vendors?

 

[Autonomous]

There seems to be a lot of makers and platforms that struggle with the transition to 10mm.

 

[mrshyvley]

-Snip-
Maybe Smith needs to tighten up testing and QC on parts coming from vendors?

Good point about QC, judging by how the experiences with the M&P 10mm 4.6 vary from pistol to pistol.

For example, my 10mm 4.6 has fired every cartridge type flawlessly except the Double Tap wide nosed 200 grain hard cast rounds.
While others have trouble firing a wider number of cartridge types.

Over Thanksgiving I and others fired another 50 rounds of S&B 180 grain JHP out of mine without problems.
Yet others can't fire this same round without incident.

 

[Tiribulus]

I want every release I see from every manufacturer to be a great firearm with zero problems. That would mean endless good choices, tons of competition, lower prices and a thriving American firearms market which would be great for EVERYbody except the anti 2A clowns.

Of course I'm not going to get that, but the closer the better.
I don't have this gun, but I sure hope these nagging problems are worked out. We have to believe that S&W has fully qualified and competent designer/engineers over there.

This won't help anybody, but I had to say it.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Buddy of mine bought one of the 1st 10mm Glocks when they came out many moons ago. He had issues with it and took several trips to the factory before they got the problem fixed. It was a problem they didn't have with any other model. Can't remember exactly what the issue was, but seems like it had to do with feeding. Growing pains. Hopefully S&W will figure this one out and fix it on future models.

Rosewood

"Glock Perfection" I take it.

 

[oseaghin]

I'm one of those unlucky ones and here's my first post on this forum.
Also, this is my first S&W firearm of any kind.
EDIT:
Here's a link to the complete dataset based on my trials:
Airtable

Here's a TL;DR:

Fundamentally, based on my (and others’) testing, these drops are a result of the bullets pressing on the magazine catch under a recoil jolt. In general, bigger bullets and spicier ammo result in drops more frequently and more repeatably.

 

[oseaghin]

Good point about QC, judging by how the experiences with the M&P 10mm 4.6 vary from pistol to pistol.

For example, my 10mm 4.6 has fired every cartridge type flawlessly except the Double Tap wide nosed 200 grain hard cast rounds.
While others have trouble firing a wider number of cartridge types.

Over Thanksgiving I and others fired another 50 rounds of S&B 180 grain JHP out of mine without problems.
Yet others can't fire this same round without incident.

Yup, great points.
Mine had problems with S&B 180 grain JHP right off the bat, but a Galloway 22-lb recoil spring fixed that.
Hardcast Underwood 200+ gr ammo is "reliably" problematic.

 

[Farmer17]

I bought mine a few weeks ago and have bought a couple boxes of Sig 180 grain FP at 1250 and it runs flawlessly and is very fun to shoot unlike .41 and .44 mag revolvers. It's recoil is fairly soft and I want to shoot it a lot but that ammo is nearly 50 bucks per box. Love the gun so far and I'm very accurate with it, hope I can find some cheaper practice ammo that's at least that hot.

 

[Racer X]

I bought mine a few weeks ago and have bought a couple boxes of Sig 180 grain FP at 1250 and it runs flawlessly and is very fun to shoot unlike .41 and .44 mag revolvers. It's recoil is fairly soft and I want to shoot it a lot but that ammo is nearly 50 bucks per box. Love the gun so far and I'm very accurate with it, hope I can find some cheaper practice ammo that's at least that hot.

have you tried hot .40 S&W 180 grain in it?

 

[oseaghin]

have you tried hot .40 S&W 180 grain in it?

This is a great point. I haven't tried hot stuff, but I have tried at least 4 types of 40SW defensive ammo.
None of them dropped the mags, but I had FTF "nose up" and stovepipe malfunctions every 5-7 rounds or so, both with the stock and 22-lb recoil spring.
This kind of an FTF, if my understanding is correct, is related to too strong of a recoil spring: it does not throw the slide far back enough, the ejector can't catch on the round, but the slide still tries to shoehorn the round into the chamber.
It's very strange that many others, e.g., on YouTube, reported no FTFs with the 40SW.

 

[mrshyvley]

Yup, great points.
Mine had problems with S&B 180 grain JHP right off the bat, but a Galloway 22-lb recoil spring fixed that.
Hardcast Underwood 200+ gr ammo is "reliably" problematic.

When you say "Hardcast Underwood 200+ gr ammo is "reliably" problematic", does it pop the magazine out and jam, or just jam?

 

[Farmer17]

Cor bon even states publicly that the Glock 20 unlocks too quickly with their hottest 200 grain ammo and that gun’s been around for nearly 32 years. Most people are happy with the power of their 9 mm or 45 ACP but it seems that everybody is wanting to make the 10 mm into a 41 magnum and it may be asking too much. I’m going to leave my M&P10 recoil spring stock and stay happy with perfect reliability with 180 grain ammo at 1250 fps, it’s not worth changing springs and messing with the gun for an extra 4% percent more bullet weight. If I wanted a more powerful, semi automatic handgun, I guess I would just get a Desert Eagle 50 caliber Action Express.

 

[rosewood]

It isn't always about power, sometimes it is about penetration. Same energy level 180 grain will likely not penetrate as deep as a 200 grain hard cast. And if you can do it with a concealable firearm that holds 3 handfuls of rounds, then even better. (handful=5)

Rosewood

 

[Autonomous]

Hardcast Underwood 200+ gr ammo is "reliably" problematic.

Maybe in your gun.
~ 3 years ago, one of the boutique ammo makers, not Underwood, had issues with their heavy 10mm SWC feeding reliably. The maker redesigned the bullets to fix the issue.
Yours is the first report of problems with this maker and I have been following heavy 10mm ammo reports closely.

 

[oseaghin]

When you say "Hardcast Underwood 200+ gr ammo is "reliably" problematic", does it pop the magazine out and jam, or just jam?

Pops the mag. I've never had jams (thank God!) with the 10mm ammo.

 

[oseaghin]

Cor bon even states publicly that the Glock 20 unlocks too quickly with their hottest 200 grain ammo and that gun’s been around for nearly 30 years. Most people are happy with the power of their 9 mm or 45 ACP but it seems that everybody is wanting to make the 10 mm into a 41 magnum and it may be asking too much. I’m going to leave my M&P10 recoil spring stock and stay happy with perfect reliability with 180 grain ammo at 1250 fps, it’s not worth changing springs and messing with the gun for an extra 4 percent more of bullet weight. If I wanted a more powerful, semi automatic handgun, I guess I would just get a Desert Eagle 50 caliber Action Express.

The problem's that it's not just the spicy stuff that pops the mags, and it's not spiciness alone that does it.
It's the the bullet size, first and foremost, that causes the issue, and spiciness just helps. Btw, ALL of the so-called spicy ammo discussed (Underwood and Double Tap) are within the SAAMI specs for the 10mm.

 

[oseaghin]

Maybe in your gun.
~ 3 years ago, one of the boutique ammo makers, not Underwood, had issues with their heavy 10mm SWC feeding reliably. The maker redesigned the bullets to fix the issue.
Yours is the first report of problems with this maker and I have been following heavy 10mm ammo reports closely.

It absolutely IS my gun. It's not the ammo. I tried posting a link to my Medium post, but the mod edited it out.
Curiously, the OP had his in his post, and that apparently is fine.