Proofhouse.com / What's the attraction?

[johngross]

Ok, I know the answer to the attraction of the Proofhouse.com website. It's easy and free. But...how accurate is the information?

I'll start with a couple of examples of what I'm familiar with, U.S. Inspector markings.

ESA is noted as E.S. Allin Civil War Rifles and Muskets, Model 1871 .50-70 Rolling Block Rifles 1850-1871 and SWP is S.W. Porter 1859-1863.

While this information may be correct, it's far from complete. Erskine S. Allin (ESA) was the Master Armorer at Springfield Armory during the Trapdoor era until his death in 1879, when he was succeeded by Samuel W. Porter (SWP). Between Allin and Porter, their cartouches appear on approximately 650,000 Trapdoor firearms. And Porter's cartouch can be found on the early Krag firearms of the 1890s as well. But there is zero mention of this at the Proofhouse website.

Next we have OWA listed as O.W. Aimsworth ,Smith & Wesson N0.3 .44 M1869, Remington and Colt Percussion and Conversion Revolvers, Colt Gatling Guns 1831-1870. But omitted from Ainsworth's entry is his inspection of the first 8,000 Colt Single Action Army revolvers purchased by the U.S. Government, most notably those issued to Custer's 7th Cavalry.

Then there is JSA listed as Unknown and inspecting Krag Rifles, Springfield M1903 Rifles 1902, 1909-1917. I have at least one reference book which is over 40 years old and identifies JSA as John S. Adams.

Moving on to the serial number production data by year for firearms such as the Winchester Model 1894 and Colt 1849 Pocket Model, the Proofhouse.com website does not show new information which has been revealed in the past 10-15 years about these firearms.

While errors can always be found in such large undertakings, Proofhouse does not note where their data originated from (I have an idea on some of it), does not appear to be interested in updating old and outdated information, nor do they offer any way to contact them so collectors and researchers can offer corrections to make the site more accurate and useful.

No doubt some of the data at Proofhouse.com is accurate and valuable, but when you see glaring errors with no attempt or interest in correcting them, one should approach the information on their website with caution. As for me, I'll continue to rely on my books.

 

[Inusuit]

Proofhouse is a handy first source for those of us who don't have all the books. In most cases, it's possible to confirm or deny Proofhouse data from another source, often online.

I appreciate your reveal of the shortcoming. I will be more inclined to validate their information from other places.

 

[Grayfox]

I think the vast majority of us just use Proofhouse to date a serial number. Here I've found their data to be very accurate.
I've never really dug into the historical info on there. Now I'll know to double check it. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Absalom]

....As for me, I'll continue to rely on my books.

Just be careful with the books too. It is my understanding that this is where the Proofhouse data mostly originated. They just aggregated various sources.

A particularly notorious example for Colt is R.L. Wilson, of course. And I'm not talking about his criminally fraudulent activities, but data in his books which Colt collectors have relied on for decades, but at least some of which we now know to be simply fabricated.

In an era of my interest, WW II revolvers, Proofhouse (and the Colt online serial look-up too) use fictional date ranges on the Colt Official Police going back to Wilson's "research", providing serial ranges for 1943 to 1945, when no OP's were produced. I'm not in a position to generalize, but would use no Wilson data unless backed up by a sufficient primary database of archive letters.

 

[LVSteve]

Any historical Internet website is only as good as the source data...which largely came from books that may contain errors. Then there is the "forgotten" data as the OP described.

Then there is JSA listed as Unknown and inspecting Krag Rifles, Springfield M1903 Rifles 1902, 1909-1917. I have at least one reference book which is over 40 years old and identifies JSA as John S. Adams.

Nobody at Proofhouse has seen that book.

As for inaccurate books, you should see some of the fantasies regarding certain contract Mausers and Enfields with supposed Irish provenance.

 

[sodacan]

Sounds like the OP should start his own website. Proofhouse.com is a good place to start when looking for basic information. Haven't seen a website yet that always got it right, except for this forum. LOL.

 

[kwill1911]

"Easy and free" is the right answer. It used to amaze me the lengths some "collectors" will go to in order to NOT spend money on a decent book.

 

[johngross]

Sounds like the OP should start his own website.

No, I won't be starting a website . Just posting the information as a PSA. As I said in my original post, proofhouse has some useful information but one needs to pay attention to the errors at the website too. And some of those errors are very serious. For example, the serial number data for Winchesters is the decades old charts collectors have been using, but in the past ten or so years this data has been superseded by more recent information direct from original Winchester records.

What this means is, there are thousands of gun owners who buy, sell, and ship firearms which they think (using the old data) are antique status but in actuality are modern firearms. To my knowledge, the BATFE is not now engaged in any serious effort to go after these people. But with the anti-gun climate we live in, this certainly could change at any time.

Perhaps I should add it's not only proofhouse, as there are other websites with erroneous firearms information as well. It's just I see proofhouse recommended a lot, I guess because it's sort of a "one stop shop."

You don't need to believe me. Look for yourself. Pictured below are two M1894 Winchester factory letters showing these rifles were shipped post 1898, making them modern firearms in the eyes of the law. Then go to the proofhouse website and see how they list them as pre-1899/antique.