Puma attacks

[Ray]

Hi, don´t intend to turn this into another 'best defense gun/caliber to deal with wild animals attacks' thread, but I was just watching a National Geographic show over 3 people that were attacked in two places , Prairie Creek and Whiting Ranch, both in California.One of them was killed, the others two survived.
In watching the show a question came to my mind - Why those people were unarmed?
Is it against the law to carry a handgun there, or were they naïve ?

Regards, Ray

 

[Watchdog]

Hi, don´t intend to turn this into another 'best defense gun/caliber to deal with wild animals attacks' thread...

Just watch how quick that happens, though.

 

[arjay]

Hi, don´t intend to turn this into another 'best defense gun/caliber to deal with wild animals attacks' thread, but I was just watching a National Geographic show over 3 people that were attacked in two places , Prairie Creek and Whiting Ranch, both in California.One of them was killed, the others two survived.

In watching the show a question came to my mind - Why those people were unarmed?

Is it against the law to carry a handgun there, or were they naïve ?



Regards, Ray

No point.They come from behind and above.You'll never know it's there [emoji38]

 

[Texas Star]

Ray-

It's very difficult to get a carry license in California.

Can you carry at all in Brazil? Can ranchers carry pistols on their own land?

And is there any way to know how many puma/cougar and jaguar attacks occur there? The Indios deep in the Amazon jungles don't send reports to Brasilia!

I interviewed a man on Vancouver Island who was attacked by a cougar. He killed her with a lockblade Schrade knife much like a Buck Model 110. I think the Schrade model was LB-7.

He said the hardest part was getting the knife from his belt pouch, & opening it with two hands while keeping her teeth from his throat.

The guy was a mess. He staggered into a logging camp all bloody and the loggers thought he was in a fight or attacked by thugs. T hey called the RCMP and an ambulance. The cops were skeptical, but found the dead cat.

I wrote this up for a knife magazine and suggested to the Schrade PR lady that they send him a new knife, as the Mounties had kept his for awhile, all bloody, in an evidence bag. I believe he got not just that replacement Schrade but offers of other knives from makers who read about his experience.

I think he lost one eye and his whole scalp had to be re-attached.

Vancouver Island is in British Columbia, the province with the most cougar attacks...and Bigfoot sightings! Canadians cannot carry guns.

However, n CA, most people who like nature are not just unarmed; they 're naive. So, a "yes" to both of your questions.

Even in Texas, where we can get pistol licenses easily, most people are very naive about wild animal attacks.

To move this along to the inevitable gun discussion, I once published an article in, Gun Week, about cougar defense guns. I concluded that a .357 revolver with four-inch barrel is about as good as anything, but wouldn't say that a .44 Magnum is too much. Hunters who shoot pumas out of trees, with a dog pack below, often use a .22 or .22 Magnum. But when the cat is hunting you, I think more gun is in order. I think I'd load Federal's 158 grain Hydra-Shok ammo in my S&W M-66-3. It's a bit lighter to carry than my Ruger GP-100, but either is a terrific gun. The smallest I'd use is a Ruger SP-101 .357.

That said, a good .38 bullet that penetrates well and expands some will probably suffice.

I recommend going to a zoo or museum and really studying cougars or bears and thinking where the vital zones are on an animal and visualizing where you'd aim.

Keep in mind that having an armed companion is a good idea. And PLEASE don't anyone suggest shooting the other person and running while the cat attacks the injured man. That's something that pops up in every bear gun topic here, with some guy thinking he's being original and funny.

BTW, the man I talked to about the Vancouver Island attack was later on the Discovery channel with two other men who were attacked in other incidents. Some people have used bicycles to fend off attacking cougars...but bikers have also been killed by the cats.

 

[Ray]

Well, Brazil is a no carry land, a stupid situation where only bad guys have the upper hand and the populace is defenseless.But in the hinterland is another matter, if you ever shoot something in self defense the best approach is - shoot, shove and shut up, but if you have the bad luck to be denounced by enviro activists you are doomed.You can carry in your property I think, if your weapon is legal and registered by the police.I guess that in very far away places anything goes.
I know of only one case of a fatal jaguar attack in recent times, Mato Grosso or Goias States.
Regards, Ray

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Open carry here.
Often I do out in the boonies.
The Lion attacks I have heard about are all stealthy.
The victims are not aware of the presence of the cat until it attacks.
The most dangerous animals round here? IMO
1. People
2. Dogs

 

[eb07]

In California it is encouraged to call 911 during the mauling so the government can come assist you. They frown upon firearm ownership there and do everything they can to demonize it in schools and the media so the majority of the population is desensitized to gun control and accept it. Hence why not a lot of people carry in Cali.

 

[BearBio]

1. Cats do indeed attack from behind.
2. Many have been killed with sticks, axes, etc.
3. Unlike canines, cats are ambush hunters and leap upon their prey (except for cheetahs, which aren't really cats, anyway).


Statistically, the most dangerous wild animal (in North America) is the moose. Dogs are the most dangerous domestic. The mosquito kills more people than any other animal.

Before I left Cali, it was legal to carry in National Forests (openly). However, no carry in vehicles, near campgrounds, near buildings, etc. Just wasn't worth it!

 

[chaparrito]

I believe I posted this before, a year or so ago. Taken last year by a game cam along the creek about a quarter mile from the house. AZ game and fish dept. biologist said it was an extremely rare photo of 4 immature Mt. Lions. I have seen their mama many times over the last 10 years. There are enough deer down along the creek that she leaves the sheep and goats alone. I always carry down there. My Security Six.

 

[Mule Packer]

I lived in Humboldt County in California for 30 years and happened to live there when the Prairie Creek attack took place. In fact, one of my former students, who was an off-duty park ranger, was the first on the scene after the attack.

Prairie Creek is in the California State Park system, thereby making it illegal to carry there, concealed or otherwise. The attack came from behind. The victim was an elderly man who was walking in the park with his wife. The cougar was an immature male. It attacked the man's day pack at first, then went for the head. According to the Fish and Game officials, if it had been a mature cat, it probably wouldn't have been confused by the backpack.

The man's wife tried to beat it off with a broken branch she found at the edge of the trail, but it was rotten and broke over the cat. The man managed to grab his pen and proceeded to stab the cougar in the face. The cougar finally left.

The next day, Fish and Game and state park officials tracked the cat down. It was paired with an immature female, undoubtedly a litter mate. Both were euthanized.

Cougar sightings are becoming more and more common in northern California, especially in the Humboldt, Del Norte, and Trinity county areas.

My neighbor shot one in his backyard after the cat was stalking my neighbor's nine-year old son.

Another neighbor had one on top of their sun porch, jump off, and run off with their house cat.

I had a female cougar prowling around my corrals.

Unfortunately, it will probably take the death of an influential person's child to change the law on cougars in California.

 

[rwsmith]

Leopards are notorious.....

Leopards are notorious for letting their 'prey' pass beneath them then attacking from behind.

Capstick had a suit of canvas clothes with linoleum patches for armor and a helmet. Somebody said that whether you saw it or not or whether you got a shot or not, you were going to need plastic surgery.

 

[arjay]

My youngest sister had a run in with one in her yard in the dark early one morning several years ago.It wanted one of her dogs.Emmas only 5'2",but fierce.She got the dog away from it.It did take a neighbors llama.

 

[Texas Star]

1. Cats do indeed attack from behind.
2. Many have been killed with sticks, axes, etc.
3. Unlike canines, cats are ambush hunters and leap upon their prey (except for cheetahs, which aren't really cats, anyway).


Statistically, the most dangerous wild animal (in North America) is the moose. Dogs are the most dangerous domestic. The mosquito kills more people than any other animal.

Before I left Cali, it was legal to carry in National Forests (openly). However, no carry in vehicles, near campgrounds, near buildings, etc. Just wasn't worth it!

Why is a cheetah not a cat? Just because the claws aren't retractable?

 

[Mistered]

Probably more cougars in Oregon than any other state. This winter ODFW shot five in my rural neighborhood. Very rough winter brought them into peoples yards looking for food. I believe I had on in my shop the other day - knocked over a five quart jug of used motor oil and LARGE cat prints on the floor and on the hood of one of my Jeeps. We have PSAs in the news warning about cougars, keep an eye out when in the woods, don't let you small children wander in the woods alone etc. Fortunately there has NEVER been a reported cougar attack on a human in Oregon. Plenty of open forest, abundant food (when the weather cooperates) and heavy sport hunting pressure keep them at bay. About 12 years ago Oregon outlawed the hunting of cougars with dogs and since then the population has officially doubled - and most likely tripled according to ODFW.

 

[Ron M.]

If I remember correctly, mountain lions were once hunted here in California. Cats ain't dumb. They remember the "boom" sticks and how old Charley met his end with a well placed shot, and word (or growls) got around. Once man stopped hunting them, that knowledge was lost. Now they have no fear of man. Or poodles, or anything they can grab and eat. If you can't carry, walk in a group...hopefully, you can out run the fat ones...

 

[Ray]

Thanks for answering my questions. Brasil is just like eb07 described, only worse.Any wild animal hunting is completely banned.I guess this ban was put into effect some 40 years ago. The legislating mentality here is strikingly similar to California´s.
We have Pumas around here ( called suçuarana - perhaps an indian name ), but no story of attacks on humans, at least none reported. As radical environmentalism is the norm around here, and hunting is demonized , may be there are atacks after all, but their reports are supressed.

Regards, Ray

 

[BearBio]

Why is a cheetah not a cat? Just because the claws aren't retractable?

Several reasons (if I remember correctly):

1. The claws;
2. Hip structure=they run like a dog.
3. Blood chemistry/circulatory system (The way they store and use oxygen).
4. Heart and lungs (Construction and size).
5. Chest structure=narrow "v" shape.
6. Differences in collarbones.

When I get back from Alaska, I'll get a chart I have in my office and try to post on-line.

Also, FYI: Jaguars (El Tigre) were hunted as far north as San Jose, in Cali. The Baja Indians used condors to locate jaguar prey to scavenge.

 

[amazingflapjack]

It is hard to really be ready for something like these attacks. I recently read an account of an 11 year old "boy" that saved his group from a Brown Bear attack in Alaska. They had seen the bear the day before as they went to fish, and so were armed the next day when they went back for some more fishin'. The lad was 3rd in line in a group of 4, and was carrying his 12 gauge at port arms because of the lack of a sling. His uncle was at the head of the party, and was armed, but had his rifle slung over his shoulder. The bear ambushed them, running right over the first individuals. This young man shot the bear 3 times. His first round was bird shot, but the next two were slugs. Showed the group with the hide. Quite a young man, to say the least. I would remove all bird shot from all the guns in camp, and cut the slings off of everything, if I was in charge! The lad's Dad credited God for how things turned out, saying they prayed for their kids and that that was what happened in this case. Wow.

 

[Absalom]

For many years, as long as I was actively hunting, I bought a cougar tag every year here in Oregon. Never saw one, even though they are all over. One year I even found large prints on top of my back trail in the mud, in the Coast Range. I kept buying the tag because I just knew the year I decided to save the money, I'd finally see one.

The only cougar I ever saw I encountered while biking in the rural suburbs of Portland back in the 1990s; I was working my way up an incline slowly and saw what I initially thought was a Golden Retriever by the side of the road. Then it turned, and the unique curve of a cougar's long tail made it obvious. I was armed, but still decided I'd had enough exercise for the day and coasted back down the hill.

Cougars are just another danger factor in the outdoors you need to be aware of, but based on the numbers of cats out there compared to the numbers of attacks, it's just not justified to obsess about it. Humans generally appear not to be on the menu. In all my decades of spending lots of time alone in the Northwest woods, I always saw my gun primarily as protection against human predators. (And sasquatches )

 

[chaparrito]

Cheetahs certainly are cats. They belong to the biological family Felidae, which is divided into two sub-families: Pantherinae, which includes most of the big cats like tigers and lions, leopards etc. and Felinae which includes Mt. Lions, cheetahs, lynx, and even domestic cats.