Purchasing Hard Cast Bullets,Need Help

[pistolairo]

I am in the process of purchasing a quanity of 38spl/357 mag hard cast bullets from Midway. They are Shooters Supply 158 gr, PHP. They have a hardness of 10. They say they work best in the velocity range from 700 to 1600'/sec.

What concerns me is they state " Works in lever action rifles" and "Do not use in anything longer than a 20" barrel".

Will these work for pistols???? they don't mention pistols? Am I assume they work in pistols?? I want them for PD and hunting.

Please let me know if I need to cancel my order!!

Thanks For Your Help Again!

 

[arjay]

I interpret it as meaning they work in rifles and pistols.

 

[Rule3]

You mean Hunters supply?

This bullet?

Hunters Supply Hard Cast Bullets 38 Cal (357 Diameter) 158 Grain Lead

The 20" length is for Black Powder loads only.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have used a lot of these in pistols with no problem. I suspect the reason they don't recommend them in long-barreled rifles is that they will lead the bore.

 

[rwsmith]

10 is pretty soft

I am in the process of purchasing a quanity of 38spl/357 mag hard cast bullets from Midway. They are Shooters Supply 158 gr, PHP. They have a hardness of 10.

Brinell 10 is pretty soft and will lead more at high velocities. The bullets Rule3 pointed out have a hardness of 15, which is better

 

[pistolairo]

Is there a Brinel hardness chart and showing application such as velcity vs leading of a certain Brine. This would help me out a lot. I thought 10 was hard not soft. The information on this product indicated a 700 to 1600 hundred ft/sec. In the low 1200'/sec range in a pistol, would this still lead up a barrel. I guess hard cast thru me off.

 

[gwpercle]

Stay within the 700 to 1600 fps range and you will be fine . These bullets do not have a gas check, and are rated as 10 on hardness, so might lead if loaded over 1600 fps. Softer bullets are better in revolvers where they have to slug up to fill a cylinder throat. I have had some bullets that leaded because they were too hard to accomplish this. Some believe that the harder the better, but that ain't necessarily so when it comes to revolver's.
gary

 

[ChuckS1]

Hardness has little to do with leading whereas the proper fit everything to do with it. You'd be better served to determine your chamber mouth and barrel dimensions and get the correct size cast bullet. A soft, properly sized bullet will not lead, where the hardest cast bullet that's undersized will lead the barrel. It'll also be more accurate, all other factors being equal.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Just a suggestion, go to Rim Rock Bullets and check out their selection of lead cast bullets. I just received 2000 148gr DEWC from them, within a week of my order. The prices just went up, I believe now $ 46.00 to $ 48.00 a box of 500, $ 15.00 for shipping up to 4 boxes. I've loaded both their 148 gr DEWC as well as 148 gr and 158 gr SWC with good results. I also like Hornady swaged bullets but they are hard to fine right now.

 

[pistolairo]

This is all getting more complicated and confusing than I ever imagined in working with lead bullets. Throat sizes, bore sizes to start with. Then formulas to determine the correct hardness that deal with cup,velocity,etc.
The 38 spl not working with 158 gr. lead bullets.

I think I'm just going to stay with what Hornady & Speer have in their manuals for their lead bullets and not try to improvise till I learn more.

Thanks for all the help. I will sit back and read the posts and see what I can pick up.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Rule3]

This is all getting more complicated and confusing than I ever imagined in working with lead bullets. Throat sizes, bore sizes to start with. Then formulas to determine the correct hardness that deal with cup,velocity,etc.
The 38 spl not working with 158 gr. lead bullets.

I think I'm just going to stay with what Hornady & Speer have in their manuals for their lead bullets and not try to improvise till I learn more.

Thanks for all the help. I will sit back and read the posts and see what I can pick up.

Thanks for all the help.

You are making it harder than you need to. Buy the bullets they are fine. The 38 spl will work fine with those soft LEAD bullets, In your other thread you were talking about JHP.

Tho bullets from Midway are fine for target or self defense.

The old FBI load was a 158 gr soft LSWCHP

 

[Rule3]

Brinell 10 is pretty soft and will lead more at high velocities. The bullets Rule3 pointed out have a harness of 15, which is better

No they are not, they are 10 BHN

great bullet for competitive shooting or small and medium-sized game, these high-quality cast bullets are composed of 5% tin and 95% lead with a Brinell hardness of 10. They are rated to 1600 fps without

 

[chief38]

For general shooting and target work I use hard cast lead at Brinell Hardness of 16 - 18. I find it works very well and with minimal leading. IMHO a BH of 10 is just too soft.

 

[Frank237]

I've gotten FAR MORE leading with overly HARD than SOFT bullets in both revolvers and autos. You will be fine with a bnh of 10.

 

[ChuckS1]

Didn't mean to make this seem complicated because it's really not rocket science. My point was that hardness isn't going to prevent leading. I find it sort is disingenuis to see cast bullet companies selling "hard cast"bullets as a panacea for leading.

 

[Crabtree]

There's a pretty good explanation of lead hardness at the technical section of MBC's website. Hope this helps MBC hardness info

 

[Cervus canadensis]

Is there a Brinel hardness chart and showing application such as velcity vs leading of a certain Brine. This would help me out a lot. I thought 10 was hard not soft. The information on this product indicated a 700 to 1600 hundred ft/sec. In the low 1200'/sec range in a pistol, would this still lead up a barrel. I guess hard cast thru me off.

Here you go:

Missouri Bullet Company

Optimum BHN= CUP / (1422 x 0.90)

 

[PDL]

If the bullets have the same description of the ones from Hunters Supply then you need to interpret it a bit differently than you have.

By saying they work in tube fed lever action rifles, they mean the nose of one bullet is not pointy enough to set off the bullet ahead of it. It doesn't mean you can't use it in pistols.
As far as the 20" barrel warning, that's for black powder applications.

Correct size is important, which is why guys slug their barrels. Normally your lead bullet should be .001 larger than a jacketed one.

Generally a soft bullet will lead more if driven too fast, and a hard bullet will lead more if driven too slow.

Buy them and use them at the speeds they recommend. Have fun.

 

[arjay]

The swaged bullets from Hornady and Speer work well with their data.Just keep them slow or they will lead the barrel.Lymans manual is useful for loading hard cast bullets at higher velocities.If a cast bullet sticks a bit when you drop it through the chamber,it probably will work fine in that gun unless the barrel is smaller,but that's fairly rare.If the bullet just falls through the chamber,you'll get leading and large groups.

 

[captaint]

Now, go back and read post #8 again. Therein lies the important information. Fit is WAY more important than hardness, and at BHN 10, the boolits are not very hard - and they don't necessarily need to be. I, personally wouldn't load them past about 11 - 1200 fps. But then, how fast do we need them to go, anyway ? Just my .02. Mike