Question about HS-6 as an alternative for Power Pistol

[parabarbarian]

I like Power Pistol for 38 spl loads. It is clean, meters well, not expensive and provides good velocities at 38 +P pressures. I have worked up loads for DEWC and light 357 loads for plinking from the Marlin.

My standard 38 +P is 5.8 gr of PP under a 158 gr plated SWC which is accurate in all of my 38/357 revolvers. A few months ago I was shooting steel targets at a local range with the +P load above and I was asked to stop using the ammo. I was genuinely surprised so I asked the reason. They told me that 38 +P was a "little too hot" for their targets. This made little sense but I didn't argue. Recently I discovered the problem was the PP had such a bang and flash the RO on duty thought I was using really hot loads that might damage their steel.

I searched a bit for a possible replacement and HS-6 seemed to be pretty close to PP in overall performance. I bought a pound to try out and in the DEWC and SWC loads it does seem to perform about as well. It leaves some sand in the barrel and on my hands but it is no worse than 2400 or 300MP -- which are bad enough. It is noticeably quieter and less flashy. I haven't been able to chrono any loads yet.

Nevertheless, I've seen more than a few claims that it is not a good powder for 38 or 45 ACP unless I only want to use maximum charges. Since those are the calibers I want use it for nd I don't want be maxed out all the time, I thought I'd ask for some second opinions. I know a few of you use it regularly.

 

[Rule3]

Our resident HS 6 expert ArchAngleCD will be all over this

HS 6 is a great powder but for full loads a Mag Primer is needed.

I like PP in 9mm and 40 SW. It does have a loud report. Another powder that I have played with is Win Auto Comp. You might want to try that also.

 

[Jamie]

I initially was going to use Power Pistol in the wife's .38 special, since I was/am new to reloading and couldn't initially find solid load data using PP in .38 special I got some Bullseye. Any reason why you like Power Pistol over Bullseye? I'm not loading any +p.

 

[colt_saa]

I would replace PP with Bullseye.

They are actually the same powder but PP is cut differently to alter the burn rate.

 

[OKFC05]

My standard 38 +P is 5.8 gr of PP under a 158 gr plated SWC

I use thousands of 158gr plated bullets each year, and a couple of things about your loads puzzle me.

You can't really load plated bullets to magnum levels, so why use a slow powder suited for max loads?
What power factor are you trying to achieve?

I use 158gr plated bullets and HP38 to easily make minor power for USPSA, and greatly surpass the new 105 power factor for IDPA.

Suggest you use a powder more efficiently suited to the load that does not burn so much out the muzzle.
HP38 stands for "Hodgdon powder for 38."

 

[rockquarry]

HS-6 & Power Pistol

I've used a good bit of each of these powders, mainly in the .38 Special and .45 ACP with cast bullets. While often providing decent accuracy, they seem to lag behind Bullseye and 231 from an overall accuracy standpoint. HS-6 & PP do,however, normally beat 231 and Bullseye muzzle velocities.

 

[parabarbarian]

I used to use Unique in 38 spl. I was quite happy with it. But that was back when I weighed every charge. Then I could only afford to go to the range about once a month so taking a couple Saturday afternoons to load enough ammo to make it worthwhile was not a big deal.

Fast forward to about two years ago when I decided to start my old hobby up again. I was going to the range much more often and even in case lots ammunition was getting a wee bit expensive. I bought a Dillon press and discovered that my old standby just did not like the Dillon powder measure. Maybe Unique meters better in a different press but a Dillon is what I have.

I never even considered Bullseye. Back in ancient times, Bullseye was for HBWC's that went POP! instead of BOOM! I never really considered it for a +P. Power Pistol was the closet thing to Unique that my local shop sold.

Maybe it or HS-6 is not the right powder. Maybe I'll just see if Phillips Wholesale carries Ramshot True Blue.

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Power Pistol, AA#5, HS-6 and Longshot will all produce good .38 Special +P ammo but HS-6 will work very well with lead bullets, better than the others IMO. I use a lot of HS-6 because it works well for me. You revolver may like one of the other powders better and that's the one you should use.

Yes, use a Magnum primer with HS-6 and if you don't, please don't post how terrible HS-6 is when you didn't give it a change to shine.

 

[Rule3]

I would replace PP with Bullseye.

They are actually the same powder but PP is cut differently to alter the burn rate.

There was a thread/article on Bullseye 84, did not know it was just the powder cut.

 

[parabarbarian]

Hmmm.

That fact HS-6 needs a magnum primer even in a low pressure, low load density cartridge like 38 spl is not a recommendation IMO. That could indicate difficult ignition and poor performance at low temperatures. I guess I need to read some more.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hmmm.

That fact HS-6 needs a magnum primer even in a low pressure, low load density cartridge like 38 spl is not a recommendation IMO. That could indicate difficult ignition and poor performance at low temperatures. I guess I need to read some more.

Completely correct, HS-6 is hard to ignite as with other hard to ignite ball powders like HS-7, W296/H110. BUT, I don't consider that a minus because IMO using a magnum primer is no big deal.

 

[dirty gary]

Lots of posts recommending a magnum primer with HS-6. I've used it for 9mm for years, never had a problem with ignition, chronos perfect. None of my Hodgdon data lists a magnum primer, although they don't show 9mm +P data.

 

[parabarbarian]

I would replace PP with Bullseye.

They are actually the same powder but PP is cut differently to alter the burn rate.

When I was looking into Power Pistol I did read something about it once being called Bullseye 84 (?) when it was a commercial powder.

Some folks elsewhere have also recommend I try Bullseye. I do remember it was really good under wadcutters. I used data from the Speer #9 manual and bevel based wadcutters with excellent results. My perceptions were stuck on it being a powder for lightweight loads and I never really considered it appropriate for 158 gr bullets.

Maybe it's time to get a pound and try it again.

 

[M29since14]

My perceptions were stuck on it being a powder for lightweight loads and I never really considered it appropriate for 158 gr bullets.

Maybe it's time to get a pound and try it again.

Bullseye is excellent in .38 Special with any bullet weight. People have always been concerned about it because of the old suspicions about "detonation" in .38 wadcutter loads. Those suspicions have been pretty thoroughly debunked by people with the experience and the equipment to know for sure. Another good choice is AA2.

To get back to the question about HS6, it seems to be one of those powders that people either like or really dislike. I have had such great luck with it in 9mm, .40, .38 Super, and (to a lesser degree) 10mm, that I consider it my first choice, even though there are certainly more modern powders that should do the same thing. My experience with HS6 is that it is not nearly so good in lower-pressure loads. I suppose the loads in the calibers mentioned are all above 25000 PSI, which is too much for the .38.

If the faster powders appeal to you, I would look into Bullseye and AA2, and of course 700-X is always good.

 

[rockquarry]

A standard primer is usually fine with HS-6.

 

[parabarbarian]

OK. I picked up a pound of Bullseye and I'll give it a go in 38 special. I have to admit that after I got over my trepidation over the small charge weights it is pretty nice to work with. It meters well and the double charge I deliberately threw was hugely obvious. Enough so that I feel confident that that none will sneak past me.

I have enough Power Pistol left for about another 400 - 500 .357 girly loads so I'll have a change to see if Bullseye will work as a replacement there too.

If it doesn't work out? Well, it can join my leftover Unique on Independence Day.

 

[M29since14]

...If it doesn't work out? Well, it can join my leftover Unique on Independence Day.

It will work out, but if you just want to try something else (just for fun, right?) try AA2, also. If you like Bullseye, you might like AA2 even better.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Lots of posts recommending a magnum primer with HS-6. I've used it for 9mm for years, never had a problem with ignition, chronos perfect. None of my Hodgdon data lists a magnum primer, although they don't show 9mm +P data.

Like I've said in a lot of other posts, most CURRENT manuals will list only magnum primers with magnum caliber load data and only standard primers with standard pressure calibers. They do this to make things east on themselves I suppose.

Look at some older manuals and you will see they always recommended magnum primers with HS-5, HS-6 and HS-7 regardless what caliber they were used in. (like Speer #12 which isn't all that old)

 

[PattonTime]

Power Pistol

I do really like Power Pistol, mostly in cases where I actually want the loud report.
It makes me feel like I am shooting a Magnum when I am not !
Anyway, the point I was going to make was that Unique suits most of my
handgun needs very well but I can not stand the way it meters.
I have found that Power Pistol and AA# 5 in correct charges will meet my needs as well as Unique ever has with no metering problems.
I think all the Accurate powders meter very ,very well for me at least.
I even went to a RCBS Competition Pistol measure so I could have all the benefits of its consistency features
I sure am glad my indoor range is not that fussy.
Up in Minnesota if I could only shoot outdoors I would not get enough Handgun shooting to suit me !