Question for you other cops

[opoefc]

I'll tell you a true, but tragic, story - The US Border Patrol station in San Ysidro, CA., had an informal policy in 1956 that you put your sidearm in your desk drawer while you were in your office. That's what Bill Jordan did. A rookie officer asked him to demonstrate a few of his gun tricks, so Bill took his revolver out of his desk drawer (which he had unloaded earlier ) and proceeded to do a few gun tricks. The gun fired and the bullet passed through the wall and killed another agent at his desk in the adjoining office. Unknown to Bill, another Agent had placed his loaded revolver of the same make ( S&W) as Bill's gun in the same drawer and Bill took out the gun, thinking it was his. I know, because I was there. I knew Bill from a few years previous when I worked as an Army MP in El Paso & Juarez. He retired shortly after the unfortunate incident of a negligent discharge. Ed.

 

[rwsmith]

Cascading failure......

I'll tell you a true, but tragic, story - The US Border Patrol station in San Ysidro, CA., had an informal policy in 1956 that you put your sidearm in your desk drawer while you were in your office. That's what Bill Jordan did. A rookie officer asked him to demonstrate a few of his gun tricks, so Bill took his revolver out of his desk drawer (which he had unloaded earlier ) and proceeded to do a few gun tricks. The gun fired and the bullet passed through the wall and killed another agent at his desk in the adjoining office. Unknown to Bill, another Agent had placed his loaded revolver of the same make ( S&W) as Bill's gun in the same drawer and Bill took out the gun, thinking it was his. I know, because I was there. I knew Bill from a few years previous when I worked as an Army MP in El Paso & Juarez. He retired shortly after the unfortunate incident of a negligent discharge. Ed.

Somebody asking to see gun tricks on the same day the other officer had an identical gun in the same drawer. Seems like all it takes for something bad to happen is for the three cherries to like up on the one armed bandit.

 

[rog8732]

Wow ! Bill Jordan. I never saw that in "Guns & Ammo" or "Shooting Times".

 

[7shooter]

I did the initial and annual police evaluations for the VA hospital where I worked and our cops said the rule was supposed to be that all law enforcement bringing patients in were supposed to check their firearms with our security. It never happened.

Toward the end of my time there our cops were issued Beretta 92 pistols that were ordered nationwide with magazine safeties. They were to be carried with the magazine removed and if I recall correctly with a live round in the chamber.

 

[the ringo kid]

Being in corrections--where I was at--at no times while inside all rows of razor wire--were we allowed to carry.In between rows of razor wire--no probs. Before entering--we sent them up to Picket one--orif the armory was open? just checked them in there. Imainly did escourts and picket duty but--about one third the time--I was inside.The only things you could have inside--were billy clubs and gas grenades. Outside however--I had my pick of: a three fifty seven,a Winchester thirty thirty,an AR fiveteen and a shotgun.Ialways had the handgun and carried the Winchester--as im not much a fan of ARs.Sorry--I like the Western look better.

Now doing escourts--at all times no matter where we were--you were armed. I had the sidearm and the Winchester. Others had sidearms and or shotguns or the AR. As far as I know--im the only one who chose the Winchester---their loss.

 

[model70hunter]

Apparently they only shoot BGs in the leg, per dept training. This was said on a TV show with a straight face by a person playing a NYC cop. Fine actress. good show, but apparently nobody on the writing staff has ever shot a hand gun.

Dand, wish I'd been on da tube with her. I'd say shooting in the leg is great until your 1st bad guy is an octopus.

 

[model70hunter]

Apparently they only shoot BGs in the leg, per dept training. This was said on a TV show with a straight face by a person playing a NYC cop. Fine actress. good show, but apparently nobody on the writing staff has ever shot a hand gun.

Dang, wish I'd been on da tube with her. I'd say with an equally straight face that shooting in the leg is great until your 1st bad guy is an octopus.

Lock boxes only when going into the lock up area, dropping folks off at the old Prison in Jefferson City, Mo or mental institutions. Usually left them in the car rather than trust other locations lock box.

Lets see, you are dealing with some of Mother Earth's most dangerous scum, they would kill or maim you for a cigarette. Their pack members come to visit.

So I want to put my most prized work tool in a drawer?

It is TV, before, during and after the internet TV was the 1st place you heard the truth, right?

I can not watch cops shows except ones like COPS and have not watched any in years.

My wife is an RN BSN, she can not watch TV medical shows.

We both agree written TV comes under the heading fantasy. We watch some cable stuff, but have not watch TV in many years now.

Good example, a year or two ago we were at her parents house. They said we'll continue the visit after we watch our favorite show, NIC something. we said whats that? Oh it's a lifelike COP show. Uh huh. Never heard of it. We don't watch TV. After the intro wife and I went outside to cleanse our eyes of TV BS and enjoy the real stars, ones in the Milky way.

 

[Stu1205]

Something I see on a lot of cop shows bugs the heck out of me. Now Ill be the first to tell you if its on TV it's probably garbage but.......do any of you guys work for a department that makes you put your pistol in your desk or lock up at the station? I know of no department in oklahoma that does this. Entering a jail is another matter. Talking about the police station or sheriffs office etc.

I've seen this on NCIS and other police show, and always wondered about that.

 

[Stu1205]

I'll tell you a true, but tragic, story - The US Border Patrol station in San Ysidro, CA., had an informal policy in 1956 that you put your sidearm in your desk drawer while you were in your office. That's what Bill Jordan did. A rookie officer asked him to demonstrate a few of his gun tricks, so Bill took his revolver out of his desk drawer (which he had unloaded earlier ) and proceeded to do a few gun tricks. The gun fired and the bullet passed through the wall and killed another agent at his desk in the adjoining office. Unknown to Bill, another Agent had placed his loaded revolver of the same make ( S&W) as Bill's gun in the same drawer and Bill took out the gun, thinking it was his. I know, because I was there. I knew Bill from a few years previous when I worked as an Army MP in El Paso & Juarez. He retired shortly after the unfortunate incident of a negligent discharge. Ed.

That is a sad story, but what surprised me is that Bill Jordan, as
educated and informed as he was about firearms, would pick up a
gun and not inspect it to see if it was loaded. As we all know,
"A gun is always loaded. Treat it as such"
Even when I take a gun I know is unloaded out of my safe, I
always check to make sure that it is.
I am not passing judgment, but I am surprised at the situation.

JMHO
Stu

 

[old bear]

As most others have posted, only in the jail area, or in a court room. The jail make good sense, but in a public open access Judicial Center not so much.

 

[Acebow]

When I started (1980), we had lock boxes in the hallway before getting on the elevator to go up to the jail. My first two years, I was a jailer, and we'd lock our guns up and wear our belts up to the floors, then hang the belts in the stairwell. When the new jail got built, and the newly-formed county DOC took over, they put lock boxes inside the sally port, before you went in to the book-in area.
For a while, LEO was forbidden to wear their weapon in the courtrooms--some stupid idea a judge had--so some of us would [supposedly] lock our guns up, but wear the belt and empty holster into court. Those of us with a modicum of common sense 'locked up' our guns in our pants pocket; even when we were carrying the S&W 645, they hid amazingly well in the pocket under the empty holster. After a few weeks of this nonsense, one deputy (I'd rather not say who) 'forgot' to 'lock up' his gun, went to court with it in the holster. Nobody complained, and other deputies began 'forgetting'. Within a couple weeks, everybody was back to keeping their weapons in the holster, and nothing was ever said about it.
There were some of the office wonks that you would see wandering around with empty holsters, but they were more the Policeman types rather than the real Cops. Acebow

 

[wyccad915]

I think when I read this the first show that comes to mind is NCIS. I know Gibbs will say gear up, and out come the guns. Theyre not even locked up, but in a desk drawer. I'm not a cop and never gave much thought to this until now. Idk why they do it. Maybe its a viewer thing and they try to minimize use.

 

[badge]

Different agencies have different rules and personalities. My former JOB was pretty good about carrying your firearm with you at all times short of the Booking areas and inside a secured facility. You always have the House Mice that lock up their weapons but they were rare. We had standing orders to never surrender your firearm and that was put to the test by one of our Patrolmen when he entered a certain Judges courtroom. The Judge had a weapon in there but did not want anyone else to have a weapon in there you see. There was quite a Kurfluffle when the officer declined to surrender his weapon and Deputies were called in as was the Brass from the JOB, ultimately including the Chief of Police. Surprisingly, the Patrolmen was supported by the Brass, ( it was in the early 80's ), and union attorneys were brought in and ultimately the Patrolmen was permitted to keep his weapon as long as it was concealed. The Judge was a tough cookie and a decent Judge but on this one I felt he was out of line but it is his courtroom after all. I always had a second weapon and never surrendered it as I was the only one who knew it. Ya got's to roll with what they gives ya.

 

[jbull380]

I did the initial and annual police evaluations for the VA hospital where I worked and our cops said the rule was supposed to be that all law enforcement bringing patients in were supposed to check their firearms with our security. It never happened.

Toward the end of my time there our cops were issued Beretta 92 pistols that were ordered nationwide with magazine safeties. They were to be carried with the magazine removed and if I recall correctly with a live round in the chamber.

What was that suppose accomplish?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

That is a sad story, but what surprised me is that Bill Jordan, as
educated and informed as he was about firearms, would pick up a
gun and not inspect it to see if it was loaded. As we all know,
"A gun is always loaded. Treat it as such"
Even when I take a gun I know is unloaded out of my safe, I
always check to make sure that it is.
I am not passing judgment, but I am surprised at the situation.

JMHO
Stu

I raised two boys living in a house with a cop for a father who also hunted, so there were always guns around. From the time they were old enough to understand what a gun was they were trained in how to properly handle and use them. Anytime you pick up a firearm the first thing you do is to "make it safe" (open the action, remove ammunition, etc). Any time you hand a weapon to someone else you "make it safe" first.

Those "boys" are well into their 40's now, and I have 9 grandchildren with no worries about how they handle firearms. Two great-grandchildren, both a little too young to handle a firearm, but I have no doubts about how they will be trained.

 

[BAM-BAM]

In the 60s my Dad was a/the Captain............ when pushing a desk for a long stretch.... his 2 or 4 inch M&P would go into his desk drawer.......you had to be buzzed into the Station by the desk officer behind a bulletproof window...... just a matter of comfort....... and banging the gun against the arm of the chair.

also IIRC .....cell area had lock boxes outside the first door ; and

the armory required a key and had a electronic lock operated by the desk officer..( as a teenager that was a fun place to visit)....Thompsons, M-1 carbines , couple of M-14s (?), couple of scoped rifles and a whole lot of shotguns.........

 

[Texas Star]

When researching his books set in Houston, author David Lindsey rode with Houston homicide cops a lot and saw how they worked. In some books, he had them get their guns out of their desks as they went to handle a case. I think they just put them in the drawers for comfort.

I think a lot of FBI agents also put their guns in their desks while in the office, and some carry in their briefcases. One interview with famed profiler John Douglas mentioned that he had his 10mm auto in his briefcase. I think that with some of these guys it's an elitist thing. They like to think of themselves as sort of executive or professional workers, not as ordinary cops. But others take their guns very seriously.

When I was in high school, an FBI agent spoke to my class on Career Day. I asked about his gun. It was a S&W Bodyguard...left out front in his car!

Mark Harmon is anti-gun, as is his wife, actress Pam Dawber. But I think that NCIS gun- in -the- desk routine was probably picked up on at an NCIS office while doing research. I'd guess it's a comfort thing. I watch and like NCIS New Orleans and can't recall offhand if they leave their guns in their desks. I don't bother with NCIS Los Angeles, as I feel it's horribly miscast.

I don't think detectives interrogating suspects wear their guns in the interrogation rooms. Don't seem to on the real cop shows. Or the true murder series like that one that Lester Holt hosted.

Someone mentioned Alaska State Troopers have a TV show. So do game wardens in Maine and in Washington (state). These are on Animal Planet. The wardens seem very smart and usually articulate. They're real, not actors.

One reality cop show was set in Dallas for some episodes. As an example of how elite some detectives get, two went to a bad part of town and were en route to arrest a murder suspect before they remembered that they'd forgotten to take handcuffs. No, I'm not kidding. I guess they did remember their guns.

 

[PR24]

It seems like only detectives do it in movies.

Despite my dept policy that all LEO's "shall" be armed on duty, there are more than a few detectives that use those damn paddle rigs and take their guns off. Some have forgotten them when they left the station & had an "OH SH__!!" moment when they realized they didn't have it. DUUUMB!!

Otherwise, it's basically the same for us. Jails/prisons, secure mental facilities & some courts. Municipal & JP courts are gun friendly but some of the judges in county superior are gun shy & make us lock them up in gun lockers in their chambers. Why? Irrational fears of anything involving guns. All that despite the fact there have been numerous incidents in & outside of courts @ the county level.

But, what they can't see won't hurt them......

 

[MOONDAWG]

Ditto on the... "Only when booking someone into jail"

 

[DR505]

I think a lot of FBI agents also put their guns in their desks while in the office, and some carry in their briefcases. One interview with famed profiler John Douglas mentioned that he had his 10mm auto in his briefcase. I think that with some of these guys it's an elitist thing. They like to think of themselves as sort of executive or professional workers, not as ordinary cops. But others take their guns very seriously.

I'm sorry, this is BS. We carry our guns pretty much 24/7 and if someone tells you different, he is either ignorant or one of the .001% of FBI who do not carry regularly.

When I was in high school, an FBI agent spoke to my class on Career Day. I asked about his gun. It was a S&W Bodyguard...left out front in his car!

I cannot say why he left it in his car, but that seems foolish, and in today's bureau, would not be well received.