Question on MIM, S&W, and Taurus

10-4 there cass. The biggest problem Taurus seems to have is Quality Control......there isn't any. They spend much time and money shipping-and-receiving weapons back-n-forth to owners under warranty, most of which they could save if they could get a handle on QC. If you leave mill-shavings and cosmoline stuffed inside a new Smith....it may be problematic as well.
 
First off, sorry if I came of with a nasty tone towards either - I didn't mean to do that, and would like to extend my apologies for offending anybody.

All that being said, if you have fully tested your Kimber and have utmost faith in it to save your life, or your loved ones, then there's nothing more to be said; in the final analysis that's what it's all about.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.

For what it's worth, I bought my Kimber for punching paper; if I ever feel I need one, my home defense weapon will be a shotgun. Powerful handguns at short range can easily kill your target AND a person in the next room.

Ed
 
First off, sorry if I came of with a nasty tone towards either - I didn't mean to do that, and would like to extend my apologies for offending anybody.

My understanding is that Kimber buys the frame from S&W who imports the raw-forgings. There was some old article about that in the late 90s, on Kimber.

My statement that the gap between the two brands is marginal was in comparison to Wilson and other high-end 1911s, that are actually made for duty or EDC. In that regards I consider them comparable - both having extensive MiM parts, both having non-conforming parts.

All that being said, if you have fully tested your Kimber and have utmost faith in it to save your life, or your loved ones, then there's nothing more to be said; in the final analysis that's what it's all about.

Which gun besides Taurus has "non standard" parts?

I don't think Kimber or any other gun maker owns a foundry so they are all buying steel forgings from a vendor. I don't think any make public where the raw forgings come from. For Kimber you hear and see on the internet all kinds of things, 99% just guesses. The latest I have seen is raw forgings from Korea. Who knows?? I'm not sure it matters.

Kimber definitely does all the machining in house. Heck that has been in American Handgunner magazine.

IMO Taurus has always been the company that does cheap knockoffs of other manufacturers designs. Their revolvers look like S&W and they have a knock off of a Beretta 92FS etc..... The only way I would buy one is if I was desperate and couldn't afford anything else. It's better than a High Point I guess. :D
 
Taurus makes decent "utility" grade guns.........the Taurus 82 and 65 have been popular with private security companies in the US and foreign countries for decades.........because they're cheaper than S&W and Ruger and they go bang when needed.

Not to get into a "history lesson" but at one time S&W and Taurus were owned by the same company, and supposedly Taurus was slated to be a "budget" line for S&W.

The springs on all of my newer Taurus revolvers (2 82's and an 80) were sub-par and had to be replaced with Wolff springs. The firing pin spring on one of my 82's was mashed into uselessness and I had to put a better spring in. Luckily I'm decently skilled as far as working on DA revolvers or I would have had to pay a gunsmith to fix my $120 security trade in 82.

With Taurus, IMO the QC is hit or miss. I have 4 Taurus revolvers that range in quality from awesome to low mediocre. One, an older Model 83, I had to file about .002 off the forcing cone to get the gun to stop binding up after 20+ rounds. It was a security gun, and my guess is that for the 12-18 rounds a year it was fired for quals (if even that) it worked well enough.

The steel used in Taurus guns is not as good as S&W, and the price reflects that.

Patience will be your friend, and IMO it pays to look for PD and security trade ins.........you can get a new $450 for a new Taurus PT92 or $350 for a new Taurus M85 when there are a lot of PD trade in Glocks, Beretta 92's, S&W 10's and 64's on the market right now for less. I have bought trade-in Ruger Service Sixes for $2-300, and even with holster scouring and 1,000's of rounds through them, I'm still getting more gun for the money than a new Taurus.

I have seen dealers at gun shows flat out refuse to take anything Taurus in trade. They basically have 0 trade value as used guns. My local gun shop stopped being a stocking Taurus dealer because he was tired of them coming back with problems. He says the Taurus .22 revolvers were some of the worst he's seen.

Taurus makes their bread and butter selling cheap snubs like the 85 and they have been selling Judges hand over fist. They also acquired Rossi and ironically Rossi is now Taurus' "budget line":rolleyes:

My opinion, overall, is that Taurus will give you a gun that will go bang but out of the box issues are more common and the warranty work turnaround time and quality for Taurus seems to range from decent to nightmare.......

Unless I see used Taurus' for bargain basement prices, like the cheap holster buffed 82's I got, I won't ever buy a new Taurus.
 
IMO Taurus has always been the company that does cheap knockoffs of other manufacturers designs. Their revolvers look like S&W and they have a knock off of a Beretta 92FS etc..... The only way I would buy one is if I was desperate and couldn't afford anything else. It's better than a High Point I guess. :D

They bought the factories fair and square and the blueprints came with them.
 
That is true, Beretta set up a factory in Sao Paulo to make pistols for the Brazilian military and Taurus Forjas bought the whole works........

Bangor Punta owned S&W and Taurus from the 60's to the early 80's but there really wasn't much of a "connection"........it's not like S&W had anything to do with Taurus revolver production at this time, just that the same holding company owned them. This company also owned a boat factory I think.

As a side note, various Isreali police forces used Taurus .380 and the 9mm PT92 pistols. And obviously the Brazilian military and police forces use a lot of Taurus stuff. Imbel makes most of the rifles and pistols, but I read that the PT92 is an issued sidearm in the Brazilian army and many police forces use them.

I've seen lots of pics of Brazilian cops with Taurus wheelguns.
 

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