Questions about this S&W .45 revolver...

[ti22]

Hi folks,

This is my first post here - hope you all might be able to help me...

A few months ago, my Dad passed away. Among the things he wanted me to have was the revolver pictured below. Dad served in WWII in Europe; he commanded a tank of the 13th Armoured Division. Dad talked a little about this gun, this was his sidearm during that time. Dad told me at the time, he was issued a submachine gun but wanted this for 'backup'. Well - now I am its caretaker.

I was hoping somebody here might be able to tell me something about this revolver. I have several questions:

1. The gun has several serial numbers on it. They are very small and hard to read.
2. Which of these serial numbers could I use to determine when the gun was made?
3. Does anyone know what model gun this is?
4. Are the 'clips' holding the bullets still available? Dad used to tell me he used to have a whole bunch of them, but I have not been able to find them.
5. Any info you all might have would be greatly appreciated.

Here are the pics:

 

[BUFF]

Your dad's revolver is called a .45 Hand Ejector Model of 1917, usually Model 1917 for short. The serial number was originally on the bottom surface of the grip frame, on the rear surface of the cylinder and on the bottom of the barrel in front of the frame, as well as couple of other places that are harder to see. The grips (which are not original) look like they have to come off on yours to see the number on the frame. Sometimes numbered parts are replaced, and the serial number on the frame will always be the one to rely on.

You can use the original clips that hold 3 rounds each, or newer clips that hold rounds. The 3 rounders are called 'half-moon clips' and the 6 rounders 'full moon clips.' Google "ranch products" for new clips. They can be had from many sources besides Ranch, who is the largest maker.

Your dad's gun originally had a blue finish and smooth, uncheckered wood stocks. It also had a lanyard swivel on the butt that was probably removed for the grips that are on it now.

The Model 1917 was originally made for the U.S. military as a substitute/standard to supplement the 1911 semiauto, which was still new and in short supply when the U.S. got involved in WWI. S&W and Colt each made and sold about 150,000 .45 ACP revolvers to the government during the war and both companies made and sold them after the war.

It's nice to have something your dad obviously valued and carried with him during the war. Quite a keepsake.

 

[ButchG17]

1. The gun has several serial numbers on it. They are very small and hard to read.
2. Which of these serial numbers could I use to determine when the gun was made?
3. Does anyone know what model gun this is?
4. Are the 'clips' holding the bullets still available? Dad used to tell me he used to have a whole bunch of them, but I have not been able to find them.

Sorry for the passing of your Dad, but welcome to the forum!

1, 2 & 3. Look on the bottom of the grip, it will probably look like this without the lanyard ring:

The Model 1917 is on the top in this pic:

I expect your dad had the gun nickeled after returning home. The front sight alteration is not an uncommon one, it's done to improve its visibility.

4. The half moon clips are available, but the new and improved version is the full moon clip.

 

[scooter123]

Underneath the heal plate on the bottom of the grip frame you'll find the serial number. You should also find it under the barrel hidden by the ejector rod. Finally, it'll also probably be stamped on the cylinder underneath the extractor star. As for the numbers stamped on the yoke, on a gun of this vintage they are tracking numbers the factory used to keep frame and yoke together once the 2 parts were fitted.

Now, I'm no expert on these older guns but I believe that what you have is the Hand Ejector of 1917 in 45 ACP. Originally it was finished in blue and at some point it's been refinished in Nickle and it wasn't done by S&W, they wouldn't have plated the hammer and trigger. Because of this, it has no value as a collectable, basically it's just a modified older gun. However, I expect that the intrinsic value far exceeds any price you care to place on it.

As for clips, today only full circle moon clips are commonly available. I believe that this gun uses the same clips as the current 625 so these still can be found on S&W's web site and in some gunshops. Note, I did state I am not an expert on these models, so I may be wrong about whether the modern clips will work in your gun. I suspect they will but S&W may have changed the size of shape of the extractor in the years between 1917 and today. As for half moon clips, you probably have to look for them at gun shows or antique firearms dealers.

 

[ti22]

Thank you!

To all that have replied to all my questions: First off, thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate this.

From what Dad told me about his gun: he bought this gun before embarking to Europe and stashed it in his tank. When he came back home, a fellow officer brought it back for him. Dad kept it in a special place ever since. Many years ago, Dad took me to a field and we fired it a few times. It is a hoss...

When Dad bought it, it was already nickle plated and the grips were on it too. I had no idea this was originally a "blued' gun. I doubt Dad would have known that otherwise he would have told me. Incidentally, I just took the grips off. Much to my surprise there is an inscription inside that reads "OFFICER so-and-so" and it is dated March 20, 1930. It is very hard to read. No telling who/when/where Dad bought it from but I presume that "OFFICER" must have had the gun nickle plated and had those grips put on. So they have been there some 80 years - hard to believe.

All the other numbers and markings are exactly as you all describe. The heel of the grip has a small 'cap' on it, and I don't want to take it off because it looks like it is a bolt holding the spring affair. I suspect that is part of where the original lineyard used to be.

Guys, thanks! I agree this gun might not have a collector value, but it is priceless to me. There is no telling how many rounds have been through it, Dad used to tell me he fired the hell out of it!

 

[BUFF]

If you backed out the screw holding that bottom grip piece on, it won't affect the mainspring. The hole in the frame that the bottom screw is stuck through (yes, originally for the lanyard) isn't threaded- the little threaded plate on the top end of that screw is just to hold that screw, and thus the bottom grip plate, in place. The mainspring is held in place by the slot in the frame at the bottom of the spring and by hooks at the spring's top that fit on a pin through the hammer and kept there by the short screw in the front of the grip frame that puts tension on the mainspring.

It looks like you can take the screw out and the grip plate off without affecting anything else. Just don't lose that little threaded plate, it's not a stock or standard part and wouldn't be really simple to replace if you did lose it.

 

[Bill Bates]

Your revolver is the commercial version of the 1917 and was manufactured sometime after WWI. Just for fun you may want to get a letter from Roy Jinks at S&W.

 

[Dave T]

Good catch Bill. I didn't notice the S&W logo on the frame until you mentioned the gun is a commercial model. Don't think anyone else mentioned it either.

Dave

 

[glenncal1]

I would definitely get the gun lettered. $50 there is a form on the S&W web site you fill out. You will get a very nice one page letter from Roy Jinks who is S&W's historian that will will tell you when the gun was made, what the original configuration was and where it was originally shipped to. The letter is a great addition to a gun with that much family history. If I was you I would also write down as much of your father's history with the gun that you can remember, it will be great legacy to pass down to your kids.

 

[Stophel]

Super cool. I'm diggin' the horn grips and buttcap!

 

[yugolovr]

That is a great 1917, and a great story about your dad. Shoot it and treasure it always.

 

[ti22]

Your revolver is the commercial version of the 1917 and was manufactured sometime after WWI. Just for fun you may want to get a letter from Roy Jinks at S&W.

Thank you Bill, Dave and Jim. And thank you all.

Now you all have me perplexed... What exactly is a "commercial version"? And, I was not aware of the "letter" you guys talk about.

I certainly need to get that.

thanks!

 

[BUFF]

By "commercial," it refers to the fact that 1917's were made both for the U.S. military, and shipped directly to them, and for civilian or "commercial" sales and sold through S&W's normal commercial network.

The commercial guns have the S&W logo stamped on the left side of the frame, while military 1917 S&W's have no logos, there or on the sideplate on the right side of the frame. Commercial 1917's also usually had checkered walnut stocks, usually with a metal S&W logo medallion set into each stock half.

Commercial 1917's are fairly scarce compared to military revolvers.

 

[Dump1567]

Here's some info. on getting a letter:

Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

Request the history of your S&W handgun

Prior to requesting the history of your handgun, first determine that you have an authentic Smith & Wesson handgun. If the barrel is not stamped Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Massachusetts or Smith & Wesson, Houlton, ME your handgun is not a Smith & Wesson. Many handguns are stamped with the caliber, i.e., .38 S&W. This indicates the caliber and does not necessarily mean that it is a Smith & Wesson manufactured handgun.

Letter of Authenticity (See sample)

If you desire an in-depth response we can provide a formal letter of authenticity. There is a fee of $50.00 to cover our research, administrative and postage costs.

To order the history of your Smith & Wesson, print this form (requires Adobe Acrobat), fill it out and return it along with a photograph or sketch of your handgun and your check or money order.

If you decide to obtain a history letter, please provide a complete description of the firearm that includes all markings, barrel length, finish, single or double action, exposed or concealed hammer and a photograph or outline sketch. If you do not know the exact caliber of the revolver please measure the length of the cylinder and include that with the description. This will aid in the identification of the handgun. If your revolver is marked with the Model Number it is not necessary to include an outline sketch or photograph.

Sample:

 

[ti22]

Awesome! Just printed the form. I'm going to fill it out, and sent it next week. Thanks for all the info.

 

[Iggy]

That is a real treasure. Take care of it.