Rash of .40 cal trade-ins

[WCCPHD]

Because the shooting world has finally realized that the 40 S&W was the answer to a question that never needed to be asked. We can't give them away at the shop anymore.

You are correct. It was developed basically as a face saver for the FBI when their 10MM concept fell flat for law enforcement. The 10MM is a great caliber, but too large and too much recoil for many current FBI agents.

Law enforcement jumped on the band wagon just because it came about due to the FBI and their adopting it. The problem is that it is just too "snappy" and will do little that a properly loaded 9MM or .45 will do.

I see them in local gun shops about 10 to 1 over 9MM and 45 third generation S&W's. They are also priced much lower than comparable guns in other calibers.

 

[nachogrande]

ALWAYS WILLING TO HELP.

Because the shooting world has finally realized that the 40 S&W was the answer to a question that never needed to be asked. We can't give them away at the shop anymore.

I'll take ALL you have, no charge. I'd hate to see someone in your condition. Do you deliver?

 

[4506517]

Lol...........at what point do we deem this beating a dead horse.

.40 not going anywhere.

And no, it doesn't "batter" a gun to death.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I eschew the .40 for one reason and one reason only. COST. As far as the 9 being less powerful-simple solution. Shoot twice.
I've owned firearms for close to 50 years and with the exception of shooting my little brother with the BB gun way back when , I have not yet had the opportunity to shoot anyone else so I can't comment of whether or not my 9 will do the job. If I ever do shoot someone, I'll be sure to post the results.
Maybe Sig220.45 will chime in. As retired FBI I'm sure he's shot lots of people over his career.

Well you could, but I would suggest following your lawyers advice which probably KYBMS. That would include internet posts, myself if I am ever put in that situation in my future, I will disappear from the social planet.

 

[Warren Sear]

I'm sorry, but I've said it before and I'll say it again right here... The existence of freak occurrences in which all major handgun cartridges have failed to immediately stop an attacker does not mean that all handgun cartridges are equal, it merely goes to illustrate the importance of shot-placement in a self-defense scenario....

... Yes, shot-placement is key...

I agree with you on the importance of shot placement, but in the real world approximately 50% of shots fired in a gun battle miss their intended targets completely. Therefore that is only one of the factors to consider.

For me, the single most important requirement in a firearm of any kind is reliability. After that is an effective caliber. Shot placement comes some place after that, and "accuracy", which I hear all the time, comes in dead last.

AFAIK, 125 grain full-powered .357 Magnum ammo is still top of the heap for effectiveness, followed closely by 45 ACP and 9mm. The new +P .38 Special HP ammo has a very good reputation, also.

 

[Narragansett]

Never owned or fired a 40. I am kind of a dinosaur when it comes to different calibers. I own a 9mm browning HP and it is nostalgic.. First pistol bought brand new for 94.00. I have a ppk/s and that will be going away soon. For fun guns, obviously the 22 cal model 17-3 is hard to beat.. Business revolvers 357 mag ( 38), and every once in a while some 44 mags. Business semi's, 45 acp.

Rifles the same way. A couple 22's, a 222, a 22-250, and 4 -30-06. Why 30-06? It is the largest caliber I shoot with comfort. Kind of vanilla I know

 

[swsig]

The only problem with that line of thinking is that there will always be cases where an attacker didn't stop right away. What about the case of the guy who attacked a police officer in IL and didn't stop until he'd been hit with over a dozen rounds of .45ACP? Does that mean .45ACP is ineffective?

It's all a trade-off between hitting power, carryability, accuracy, and capacity. Everyone has to make a decision about what works best for them. I am certainly not wedded to the 40. I'm always willing to consider a superior alternative, but my M&P 40c has been such an excellent gun for me (with nearly 12,000 rounds through it), that I still haven't found a replacement. My Shield 45 has come the closest so far. It's just as accurate and it's easier to carry, but I still like those three extra rounds in my 40c.

 

[serger]

I've been beating the "Buy the LEO surplus 40's" drum for at least
a year.

Last spring my son and I bought shields in 40 S&W. Over the
summer we ran a couple k thru them. They work fine.

I knew the FBI wannabe's were dropping their 40S&W service
pistols as fast as they could. SO I started looking on Gun Broker
for them.

I picked up a Glock 22 from Vernal UT for $308.00 in my hands.
Still had the copper anti-seize in the slide.

Then I found several SIG P229's for around $350.00. Got a P226 for $428.00.

They are still out there.And can be found for really reasonable prices.

I cast and have been loading 180gr powder coated rounds with
5.4gr of Power Pistol and S&B small primers. Runs 880fps from
the shield with 24fps SD.

Never thought I'd be able to afford SIG's and now I have a bunch.

The only other thing I've been doing is getting 9mm Conversion
barrels for them. That just makes them more fun.

Check out the broker and be patient. You'll find them.

 

[swsig]

AFAIK, 125 grain full-powered .357 Magnum ammo is still top of the heap for effectiveness, followed closely by 45 ACP and 9mm. The new +P .38 Special HP ammo has a very good reputation, also.

I had a conversation a few days ago with a retired big-city homicide detective on this very topic, and his real-world observations are most interesting. One of his duties was to investigate every officer-involved shooting. Because this was a large city with plenty of bad guys, there were a lot of these. As part of his investigation, he asked each officer how the BG responded when hit. Those who were hit by 9mm rounds flinched somewhat, but maintained their equilibrium. Those who were hit by .45, .357 Mag, or .357 SIG rounds tended to be knocked backwards. His reviews of the wound channels of the BGs who did not survive were consistent with the officers' descriptions. He did not mention the .40 cal., and I forgot to ask about it. It's possible his department did not issue 40s. Since he's a range officer at my range, the next time I see him, I'll ask.

 

[indigo22]

Honestly, my current EDC is a 380. It go's everywhere with me. The thought of going to a larger caliber has been brought on by my hiking in the New Hampshire wilds. If I were to run across the rare bear or large cat up in the mountains I have concerns that a .380 may not be enough. In the past my "woods" guns have ranged from 22Lr's up to 44mag more or less dependent on where I hiked and which state I was in. When all I could afford was my 22Lr I was more than comfortable, never felt under gunned, and much younger. I guess as I have aged, slowed down, and gotten less inclined to out run or out fight any critter 2 or 4 legged. I will say that of all the guns I have carried in the woods and out in public the 22 is the only one I had used in self defense (feral dogs deep in the woods). I was very glad I had it at the time.
I'm preferring a semiauto with enough punch to get the job done in .40 or .45... decisions decisions...

 

[sigp220.45]

I've worked a bunch of different homicides with a bunch of different weapons. The only "weapon system" that was 100% fatal was the common .22 repeating rifle. Most of my time was on Indian reservations, so that was the handiest thing around when the killing started, but if somebody starts poking holes in you with their trusty Marlin Model 60, your day is at an end.

Pistols were hit and miss. I used to be on a fugitive squad in New Orleans and almost everyone I arrested had been shot at one time or another. To kill time on the way to Central Lockup I would ask them about what they had been shot with, and they were usually more than happy to point out healed and mostly healed bullet holes and say: This one was a 9, or this one was a forty. One guy was missing almost all of his left calf which he claimed was from an AK round. Didn't stop him from healing up and paying back the favor.

I think the best deal going is .40 police trade ins. Its like when those obsolete .30/40 Krags hit the market way back when for next to nothing. Those guys back then probably said - what do I want a clunky old thing like that for? Meanwhile, other guys were socking them away.

Now is the chance to be the other guy.

 

[C J]

Those who believe a .40 automatically has recoil issues are just using the wrong brand. I have a Springfield XDm .40 that has far less recoil than my Sig P220 .45. Apparently Glocks are not like that and it seems that is the only brand many people consider. From all I've seen in reports on the Glock .40's their recoil is tough to handle. I can't even feel the recoil on my XDm.

 

[catadjuster]

I've worked a bunch of different homicides with a bunch of different weapons. The only one that was 100% fatal was the common .22 repeating rifle. Most of my time was on Indian reservations, so that was the handiest thing around when the killing started, but if somebody starts poking holes in you with their trusty Marlin Model 60, your day is at an end.

Pistols were hit and miss. I used to be on a fugitive squad in New Orleans and almost everyone I arrested had been shot at one time or another. To kill time on the way to Central Lockup I would ask them about what they had been shot with, and they were usually more than happy to point out healed and mostly healed bullet holes and say: This one was a 9, or this one was a forty. One guy was missing almost all of his left calf which he claimed was from an AK round. Didn't stop him from healing up and paying back the favor.

I recall reading an interview with an emergency room doc who claimed that he had never lost a patient with a pistol caliber wound if the patient made it to the emergency room with any life left at all. He said that most of those shot with a rifle either did not arrive alive, or that they died while being worked on.

We have to remind ourselves that handguns are not particularly effective in killing - we just need them to be effective in stopping an attack.

 

[Toycardriver]

Those who believe a .40 automatically has recoil issues are just using the wrong brand. I have a Springfield XDm .40 that has far less recoil than my Sig P220 .45. Apparently Glocks are not like that and it seems that is the only brand many people consider. From all I've seen in reports on the Glock .40's their recoil is tough to handle. I can't even feel the recoil on my XDm.

I had a Glock 22 I was never happy with the recoil impulse on and got rid of it. I picked up a Sig P229 for cheap and that is like night and day compared to the Glock. Better recoil and, to me, better grip feel.