Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet

[Rastoff]

I teach CCW (carry concealed weapon) classes. It is my goal in these classes to help people learn the law and to shoot better in defensive situations. The law in CA doesn't require a shooting component to get a CCW license. However, my local sheriff likes to see it included in the class. To qualify for the shooting portion, a student must shoot 20 shots. They must all be within the silhouette of a B-27E target like this one:

This target is enormous at 2' wide by 3' tall.

The course of fire is:

• 4 shots from 3 yards
• 6 shots from 5 yards
• 6 shots from 7 yards
• 4 shots from 10 yards

All shots are fired with the shooters choice of grip and stance and start from the ready position (gun loaded, but not in holster). They are all untimed so, there is no need to hurry.

The goal here is to see that the students can handle their guns safely and at least get their bullets to go in the general direction of the target. I thought this would be a very easy test. After instructing many students, I can see that this is more difficult than I thought.

Because I thought it was easy, I had never actually shot the full course. I'm a huge believer that an instructor doesn't need to be the best, but should at least be able to do what he's asking the students to do. So, today I shot the test. Here is my result:

Notice that all the shots are in the orange. There is actually a tiny bit of orange between the right line and the right most hole. So, none of my shots are even touching the line. (It was sunny, but the wind was blowing about 5-10MPH from my back.)

So, I challenge everyone here to run the same course of fire. There is a lot of talk about, "I shoot well enough to defend myself." OK, I'm calling you out. Run this course of fire and post your pics here. Can you keep all 20 shots in the orange? I don't think you can! That's right, I said it, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Here are the rules:

• Any target may be used. To say you did as well as I did, all your shots must be within a 2"x3" oval. That's the size of the B-27E bullseye. So, either use a B-27E (regular B-27 would be fine) or provide proof of the size of your group.
• The gun must be a gun used for self/home-defense.
• The gun must be used in the same fashion it would be used for defense. So, if it is a DA/SA, the first shot at each yardage must be shot DA first and then SA for the rest. If it's a revolver it must be shot DA for every shot.
• The course of fire is as above.
• All shots are untimed.

This is done on your honor. If you say you did it, I'll believe you, but you must post a picture of your target. Let's keep this in the spirit of the forum. While I'm sure you can use this gun to defend yourself...

...it doesn't fit the spirit of the competition.

I used this one:

Well there it is.

I know you can't beat me, but can you even come close? PROVE IT!!! (There might be a prize involved. )

 

[petepeterson]

Rumor has it that it may break the freezing mark here in PA for the 1st time since August. If it gets near 50 anytime soon, I'll play.
I have pistols that would fit the CCW/HD bill that I might be able to do it with, but I have my doubts about my 3914. Then again, the challenge isn't to win, but to learn.

 

[snubbyfan]

It's too cold to go to the range right now but I've done this;

With this;

From about this far away;

The head shots were done from the low ready position, bringing the gun up and shooting quickly. I also dumped one cylinder quickly in the red.
I can't help but wonder how I'd do if my hands worked right.

 

[Rastoff]

...I have my doubts about my 3914.

If this is a gun you use for defense, let's erase those doubts. Give it a shot (pun intended). Who knows, you just might do it.

Then again, the challenge isn't to win, but to learn.

Absolutely correct! You sir, understand.

 

[Rastoff]

Nice shooting Snubby!

 

[schgsd]

Love it. Have been very jealous of the internet matches in one of the other sub forums. Great idea Rastoff.

We are in the record books for cold and snowfall depth at this point but by god I will find a way to do this!

 

[ContinentalOp]

I like this exercise. I think I'm going to include this in my next range session. If I do I'll update with a picture.

In the meantime, I shot the following group at my last range session back in January. It was my 1st 5 shots of the day (and the 1st 5 shots in a long time...haven't been able to get to the range in quite some time, much longer than I'd care to admit).

I shot it using my 642 with 132gr PMC FMJ at ~10 yards, 2-handed, standing, no support. Carefully aimed each shot. Also, the gun is stock except for Spegel boot grips (i.e., no trigger work). It's the gun in my avatar.

The target is a BT-5 (my favorite, FYI) and the white rectangle is a 3"x5" adhesive mailing label.

Not great, but I don't think it's too bad, either. There's always room for improvement.

 

[SMSgt]

I don't care how well you shoot unless you're shooting at me. When you're 63 with two bad knees that will barely hold you up, hands that shake, and eyes that will never focus again, then we'll have a level playing field.

But I can still pass your test.

 

[bhayles]

I'll give it a try this next week using my EDC...a Glock gen 3 mod 22. I have my doubts about how I'll do until after my cataract surgery next month...

BTW...since you said self-home defense, someone who doesn't carry but has a SD/HD gun just to stay at home, someone COULD meet your standards with a red dot equipped AR ya know...

 

[Rastoff]

Well, yeah, I guess an AR with a 4x ACOG would technically meet the criteria. Of course it would violate the essence of the OP.

But hey, if you feel you need a rifle to best what I can do with a pistol, then OK.

 

[Protected One]

OK, I'll play. Only difference is...this is from 7 yds and 10 yds (25 rounds each). The "fliers" are at 10 yd's.

 

[Rastoff]

Nice shooting and the right gun too!

 

[bhayles]

...if you feel you need a rifle to best what I can do with a pistol, then OK.

LOL...I see what yer doin'...

 

[David R]

I take your challenge and I plan to beat you!
I may have to enter a few times.

David

 

[StrawHat]

When it warms up a bit, I give it a shot. It'll be interesting to see my results.

Kevin

 

[petepeterson]

Nice shooting and the right gun too!

You guys ever consider a pistol from the 2nd half of the previous century???

Actually, that was one of the pistols I was referring to in my previous post.

 

[bearfoot]

while cleaning the suv and front walk, 5 deg. & snowing wed., the wind was right and i could hear someone using the range. put a smile on my face, doesn't take much w/ cabin fever. -6 the other night and i stood outside looking at the stars, a thought- spring is coming. cleaned out the range bag. cut some patches. being able to go to the range during the week is great, few shooters. now i just have to search how to post pictures.

 

[Rastoff]

I can help with posting pics. There are a couple of explanations on the forum, like this one: http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum-office/416141-posting-pictures.html

Or you can email them to me at [email protected] and I'll post them for you.

 

[RobzGuns]

I'll give it a go at my next range trip.
I typically use the Birchwood Casey 6" Shoot-N-See.

 

[Rastoff]

I can't say I spend all too much time shooting from a static stance anymore. I just don't think it accurately reflects defensive realities.

It doesn't, that's the point. Lots of guys on the interweb claim that they are "good enough" shots so they don't need this training or that practice. This is a challenge to see if they, anyone, can even shoot at a static target.

It's important for the beginner...

Marksmanship and fundamentals are important for everyone from beginner to advanced. Anyone who says differently is...well, wrong.

...if your not training a lot of shooting one handed incorporating defensive movement, I don't think your preparing properly yourself to effectively the majority of handle actual defensive scenarios you would likely encounter.

Yeah, sure, but let's start at the beginning. Remember, I teach defensive shooting so, I agree that movement, shooting with one hand, shooting with the support hand and other stuff, is necessary to be as effective as one can be in a defensive situation. But first let's just hit the target.

Your comment gives me the impression that "Rastoff's Challenge" is beneath you or not worth your time. Is that true? If it is, then you are exactly the person I'm challenging. There is never a time in shooting when Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, Trigger Control and Follow Through are not important. This challenge is an exercise in executing those 4 fundamentals as perfectly as you can. Think "one ragged hole" drill.

We talk all the time about how shot placement is the key to effective self-defense shooting. Here is an opportunity to test yourself at shot placement. The goal here is the smallest group possible. It's you vs the target, nothing more.


Don't lose sight of the fact that this is for fun and experience. We can do more later. Also, no one has to participate. This is just an opportunity to challenge ourselves. If anyone doesn't want to do it, fine.

Are you in?