Really BIG Serial Number

[kscharlie]

Looking at some gun auctions and ran across this one. Obviously, it caught my attention since the serial number on the butt was 78415230. Something really, really wrong here. Scrolled down to the description and here is what it said:

"... a post-war Smith & Wesson Regulation Police (Pre-31) revolver in .32 S&W Long. Original Serial number- 641523. At some point during this pistols life, the original serial number was altered from 641523, to 78415230. The original serial number is stamped on the inside of the right grip."

Not only was the serial number expanded, the beginning "6" was altered to "8".

Seller is an FFL. He acknowledges the fact that the serial number has been altered. No excuses for not knowing the laws regarding altered, defaced or obliterated serial numbers.

Oh, the description was also incorrect as the gun in question is a Pre-30, certainly not a Regulation Police Pre-31.

 

[Art Doc]

Obviously illegal as is. Likely stolen property. Owner may or may not be traceable. I would not buy it. If I wound up with it I would stamp the correct number on the grip frame and act nonchalant.

 

[Old TexMex]

I don’t need anything that much. Nothing.

 

[hkcavalier]

Any owner dumb enough to do that to their gun is also dumb enough to do something else to it/with it that I won't like. Hard pass.

 

[Narragansett]

How long ago was it altered? I think post war there were guns being made with date codes but not serial numbers. The Remington 510 comes to mind. The FFA of 1968 changed many things. I don’t know for sure, just a question

 

[Absalom]

On a different note, I can’t get to my copy of the SCSW right now, but the serial given as the original, 641523, seems quite high for a Pre-30. Did they go that high?

I wouldn’t trust a grip panel serial, but go for barrel flat and cylinder face first.

 

[Muley Gil]

How long ago was it altered? I think post war there were guns being made with date codes but not serial numbers. The Remington 510 comes to mind. The FFA of 1968 changed many things. I don’t know for sure, just a question

There were firearms built without serial numbers pre GCA of 1968, mostly .22s and shotguns. However, if a firearm had a SN and it was altered, that is a violation of the law.

S&Ws have had SNs since 1852.

 

[kscharlie]

On a different note, I can’t get to my copy of the SCSW right now, but the serial given as the original, 641523, seems quite high for a Pre-30. Did they go that high?

I wouldn’t trust a grip panel serial, but go for barrel flat and cylinder face first.

Yes, they did. I have a pre-30, serial #654xxx that shipped in June 1957. In this case it doesn't really what number is on the grip panel, barrel flat or cylinder face. The "official" serial number is the one on the bottom of the butt, and it has been altered.

 

[Hondo44]

That's a new one on me! No telling what the story behind it is.

The FFL/seller could check it in the national database with it's correct 6 digit serial for a theft report. If I wanted the gun, I'd ask the seller to confirm it's not been reported as stolen. But who even wants to deal with it unless maybe the gun can be had for $100.

If not reported stolen, I see no legal issues with a new # re-stamped on the gun butt, because the frame has a serial # which is BATFE compliant. There's no proving when it was done or if there was an illicit reason for doing it or not. It's clearly been re-blued since being re-stamped. The price should also reflect that.

A #641523 Pre Mod 30 would typically be from late 1956 and should have the serial # on the bottom of the barrel and rear face of cyl as Absalom indicated above. It could have 3 or 4 side plate screws (one under the right grip.)

If not on the barrel and cyl, the seller can still confirm the original serial # by finding it on the underside of the extractor star when pushed rearward using magnification to see it.

 

[moosedog]

Hard to tell. Could have been stolen, had the serial number altered and then the gun was recovered and had another serial number assigned it by ATF. Happens.
I had a P-38 like that. Numbers never made sense until we ran the gun and it came back as stolen in the 1960's in Detroit. Since then, the gun had been recovered, ATF assigned a new number and the vet had passed away. Turns out Detroit never took it out of LEIN as recovered.
Talk about jumping thru hoops. Finally got it squared away.

 

[Hondo44]

Hard to tell. Could have been stolen, had the serial number altered and then the gun was recovered and had another serial number assigned it by ATF. Happens.
I had a P-38 like that. Numbers never made sense until we ran the gun and it came back as stolen in the 1960's in Detroit. Since then, the gun had been recovered, ATF assigned a new number and the vet had passed away. Turns out Detroit never took it out of LEIN as recovered.
Talk about jumping thru hoops. Finally got it squared away.

Bravo! Did you work with local PD or BATFE?

 

[flagman1776]

Hard to tell. Could have been stolen, had the serial number altered and then the gun was recovered and had another serial number assigned it by ATF. Happens.
I had a P-38 like that. Numbers never made sense until we ran the gun and it came back as stolen in the 1960's in Detroit. Since then, the gun had been recovered, ATF assigned a new number and the vet had passed away. Turns out Detroit never took it out of LEIN as recovered.
Talk about jumping thru hoops. Finally got it squared away.

You've really gotta want it to go through that much BS!