Red Mottled Stocks on 38 Safety Hammerless 1st Model

[shown50]

Anyone ever seen a pair of red mottled stocks a 38 Safety Hammerless 1st model? I bought this on everyone’s favorite auction site a couple weeks ago and it just arrived yesterday. It’s a nickel 3 1/4 barrel model serial 2805 out of 5250.

The stocks seem to have been on the gun a long time and have the serial number in pencil.. One of the panels has a hairline crack, but it’s small and seems stable so it doesn’t bother me.

I’m a terrible photographer but the stocks have a beautiful color. This is my first pair of the red mottled stocks and I’ll probably send for a letter on it this week. I’m not sure the letter will say if they were red but it’s worth a shot.

There isnt a lot of information on these stocks that I’ve found online, I’ve read that there may have been other colors made by S&W. Can anyone post a picture of a S&W wearing a pair of stocks in the other colors?

 

[Boulder350]

Love these mottled grips. I don't have the experience the older members have here, but I have studied them and kept records of guns that wear them for the last 4 years.

Hard rubber grips are very stable over time and they shrink very little. Each pair of grips were fitted at the factory and adjusted to fit perfect to each gun. Looking at the grips for your gun, they don't have the perfect factory fit. The grips look a little smaller than the frame in several places.

The serial number under the right grip looks like it was added much later than the factory would have written it. The grip numbers script should look a lot more like the serial number on the bottom of the frame.

The books say that mottled grips were fitted only to blued guns, but that is not entirely correct. Most blued 38 SA 2nd models wear mottled grips after about serial number 30,000. Many nickel 38 SA guns wear them too from the middle of the production run. The 32 SA has a similar story.

38 DA and 32 DA guns wear mottled grips too. Most of the DA guns with mottled grips are blued. Occasionally a nickel gun shows up with them.

The 44 DA revolver wears them. Every single one I have seen has been blue with low 4 digit serial numbers.

I have not seen a safety hammerless in 32 or 38 that look like they were installed at the factory. That does not mean they don't exist, if they do they are very rare.

 

[orbruce]

Love these mottled grips. I don't have the experience the older members have here, but I have studied them and kept records of guns that wear them for the last 4 years.

Hard rubber grips are very stable over time and they shrink very little. Each pair of grips were fitted at the factory and adjusted to fit perfect to each gun. Looking at the grips for your gun, they don't have the perfect factory fit. The grips look a little smaller than the frame in several places.

The serial number under the right grip looks like it was added much later than the factory would have written it. The grip numbers script should look a lot more like the serial number on the bottom of the frame.

The books say that mottled grips were fitted only to blued guns, but that is not entirely correct. Most blued 38 SA 2nd models wear mottled grips after about serial number 30,000. Many nickel 38 SA guns wear them too from the middle of the production run. The 32 SA has a similar story.

38 DA and 32 DA guns wear mottled grips too. Most of the DA guns with mottled grips are blued. Occasionally a nickel gun shows up with them.

The 44 DA revolver wears them. Every single one I have seen has been blue with low 4 digit serial numbers.

I have not seen a DA in 32 or 38 that look like they were installed at the factory. That does not mean they don't exist, if they do they are very rare.

Both the blue and nickel finished Revolving Rifles had red mottled stocks and forearms.

B. Mower

 

[shown50]

Love these mottled grips. I don't have the experience the older members have here, but I have studied them and kept records of guns that wear them for the last 4 years.

Hard rubber grips are very stable over time and they shrink very little. Each pair of grips were fitted at the factory and adjusted to fit perfect to each gun. Looking at the grips for your gun, they don't have the perfect factory fit. The grips look a little smaller than the frame in several places.

The serial number under the right grip looks like it was added much later than the factory would have written it. The grip numbers script should look a lot more like the serial number on the bottom of the frame.

The books say that mottled grips were fitted only to blued guns, but that is not entirely correct. Most blued 38 SA 2nd models wear mottled grips after about serial number 30,000. Many nickel 38 SA guns wear them too from the middle of the production run. The 32 SA has a similar story.

38 DA and 32 DA guns wear mottled grips too. Most of the DA guns with mottled grips are blued. Occasionally a nickel gun shows up with them.

The 44 DA revolver wears them. Every single one I have seen has been blue with low 4 digit serial numbers.

I have not seen a safety hammerless in 32 or 38 that look like they were installed at the factory. That does not mean they don't exist, if they do they are very rare.

I was hoping you’d see this thread and comment on the stocks. The serial number was a concern for me, but I only had late teens/early twenties stocks with the number in pencil to compare it to. I’ll order a letter today and see if they have the color listed. There’s a 2nd model Safety Hammerless in the Standard Catalogue 3rd edition but I don’t know if they were factory installed.
Can you post any pictures of factory mottled grips in any other color than red? I’ve never seen a pair posted online before. I’m going to post a couple more pictures I took yesterday, I’ve not had a chance to get it outside and take anything in good lighting.

 

[H Richard]

They did appear earlier, this is a .32 Single Action shipped Aug 1887.

 

[Boulder350]

I have never seen the other colors on the mottled stocks. Others here have. I think I have read here that they were installed on the Double Action guns. The other colors were probably prototypes, and since Smith and Wesson never threw anything away, they installed them on a few guns and sent them out the door.

There are 3 styles of the red mottled grips, not counting the S&W logo variances on the grips. One is the swirled pattern like your revolver. Another is the straight pattern like the 38 Safety Hammerless you mentioned in the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. The last is a very dark straight pattern. The very dark straight pattern is least common and is found on both the 32 SA and the 38 SA.

Here is a picture of the 3 styles I talked about on 32's. The top one is a very swirled pattern in the Turkey grips. The swirled pattern is the most common on the double actions guns. The next is the straight pattern and is the most common on the single action guns. The dark red mottled grips I have only seen on the single action guns.

 

[shown50]

I have never seen the other colors on the mottled stocks. Others here have. I think I have read here that they were installed on the Double Action guns. The other colors were probably prototypes, and since Smith and Wesson never threw anything away, they installed them on a few guns and sent them out the door.

There are 3 styles of the red mottled grips, not counting the S&W logo variances on the grips. One is the swirled pattern like your revolver. Another is the straight pattern like the 38 Safety Hammerless you mentioned in the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. The last is a very dark straight pattern. The very dark straight pattern is least common and is found on both the 32 SA and the 38 SA.

Here is a picture of the 3 styles I talked about on 32's. The top one is a very swirled pattern in the Turkey grips. The swirled pattern is the most common on the double actions guns. The next is the straight pattern and is the most common on the single action guns. The dark red mottled grips I have only seen on the single action guns.

That makes sense that the other colors were prototypes just for the fact that there aren’t more out in the wild. I have read about the “Turkey” style mottled stocks, but haven’t ever seen a pair in person or for sale in my area. The dark stocks are beautiful!

I’ve got a couple questions you might have answers to.

Do you have any idea if the different patterns were strictly for each model gun or was that just what was available during production of each model at the time?
(I’m assuming these were made in small batches and used up before the next batch was made)

Was the “Turkey” style made before the checkered stocks or at the same time? (Do we know years of production for these? I’ve seen some made post 1900).

Did S&W make the Red Mottled stocks or was it subbed out to a different company? (I would think if S&W was making them there would be information from the time period talking about them)

I’ve been fascinated with these over the last few months as they’re stunning in pictures on blued guns You would think they would’ve been very popular back in the day, but I hardly ever see them come up for sale online.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


I have a S&W .32 CF SA with the mottled stocks on it. I've notice
that lighting can make quite a difference in the appearance of these
stocks. Attached are 2 views of the same grips using different
lighting angles.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[shown50]

Hi There,


I have a S&W .32 CF SA with the mottled stocks on it. I've notice
that lighting can make quite a difference in the appearance of these
stocks. Attached are 2 views of the same grips using different
lighting angles.


Cheers!
Webb

Wow that half red/half black look around the S&W logo is striking! So far I’ve yet to see a pair that are exactly alike. I’m wondering how they made the design without having the two colors blurring together and looking like a mess.

 

[iby]

grips

Probably a gentle stirring

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Have any of you seen the commercial for Warby Parker eye
ware? In the commercial, they show 2 different colored beads
dumped into a tray that are then heated to fuse them together
and then they machine out the frames from the solidified billet.

I could imagine something similar except the beads are heated
up to the pouring point of the (for the lack of a better word)
plastic. They probably used kettles heated by steam (a very
common way to do this back then). They could regulate the
heat some by adjusting the steam pressure.

Once the colored beads were up to the pouring temp, the liquid
was poured into the mould and allowed to harden. To vary the
patterns, the liquid as it poured from the kettle, was slightly
moved in a chassé manner to add variations to the resulting
pattern. Anyway that is how I see it.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[shown50]

Hi There,


Have any of you seen the commercial for Warby Parker eye
ware? In the commercial, they show 2 different colored beads
dumped into a tray that are then heated to fuse them together
and then they machine out the frames from the solidified billet.

I could imagine something similar except the beads are heated
up to the pouring point of the (for the lack of a better word)
plastic. They probably used kettles heated by steam (a very
common way to do this back then). They could regulate the
heat some by adjusting the steam pressure.

Once the colored beads were up to the pouring temp, the liquid
was poured into the mould and allowed to harden. To vary the
patterns, the liquid as it poured from the kettle, was slightly
moved in a chassé manner to add variations to the resulting
pattern. Anyway that is how I see it.


Cheers!
Webb

Very interesting! I would think making other colors besides red and black could have been possible with the process described above. I wonder why there aren’t more pairs floating around?

 

[iby]

There are S&W green & black for sure

 

[Boulder350]

Do you have any idea if the different patterns were strictly for each model gun or was that just what was available during production of each model at the time?
(I’m assuming these were made in small batches and used up before the next batch was made)

Was the “Turkey” style made before the checkered stocks or at the same time? (Do we know years of production for these? I’ve seen some made post 1900).

Did S&W make the Red Mottled stocks or was it subbed out to a different company? (I would think if S&W was making them there would be information from the time period talking about them)

I’ve been fascinated with these over the last few months as they’re stunning in pictures on blued guns You would think they would’ve been very popular back in the day, but I hardly ever see them come up for sale online.

The patterns did not correspond to the different sizes. I think they corresponded to the time frame they were made which also corresponds with the logo. No S&W logo was first. I have only seen one gun without a logo and mottled grips. Its a 32 SA (see link below to Rock Island). I consider it a straight pattern. Then are the block logos for the 32 and 38 single actions. They are all the straight pattern. Last are the Young logos. They are straight and the swirled pattern.

The turkey grips are only on the very early 32 DA guns. On the black stock they stopped using them around serial number 5300. On the mottled stocks they stopped using them around serial number 18,700.

Its my understanding they S&W did not make their own hard rubber stocks/grips. There were several companies that made them from what I have read here. My opinion is that they ordered large quantities at a time and used them up at different times.

I think they started using the new Young designed S&W logo in black and mottled and had a bunch of left over block logo mottled stocks so, they started installing them on the nickel guns too to use them up.

Smith & Wesson 1 1/2 Revolver 32 S&W | Rock Island Auction

 

[mmaher94087]

Shown50, pardon the thread drift from the .38, 1st Model but in keeping with the red/black stocks, tomorrow I'll look at a .32CF I have with the red/black stocks that is in the 43K range to see which stocks are present. No logo, which logo?

 

[moralem]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mmaher94087]

My .32CF, 43K serial range, has the Young style mottled stocks.

 

[Boulder350]

Most of the mottled stocks found on the on the 32 SA in the 40k range have the dark mottled stocks. The one I pictured above is in that range with the dark mottled stocks. So far I have found 3 batches of them in the 40k range. One batch is in the 43k range, another is in the 46k range, and the last is in the 49k range.

 

[shown50]

The patterns did not correspond to the different sizes. I think they corresponded to the time frame they were made which also corresponds with the logo. No S&W logo was first. I have only seen one gun without a logo and mottled grips. Its a 32 SA (see link below to Rock Island). I consider it a straight pattern. Then are the block logos for the 32 and 38 single actions. They are all the straight pattern. Last are the Young logos. They are straight and the swirled pattern.

The turkey grips are only on the very early 32 DA guns. On the black stock they stopped using them around serial number 5300. On the mottled stocks they stopped using them around serial number 18,700.

Its my understanding they S&W did not make their own hard rubber stocks/grips. There were several companies that made them from what I have read here. My opinion is that they ordered large quantities at a time and used them up at different times.

I think they started using the new Young designed S&W logo in black and mottled and had a bunch of left over block logo mottled stocks so, they started installing them on the nickel guns too to use them up.

Smith & Wesson 1 1/2 Revolver 32 S&W | Rock Island Auction

Wow that’s a beautiful gun and with the box too! If S&W used other manufacturers to make the stocks(black,red, wood) then it would make sense that there were minor differences in the colors.
The Turkey Stocks are really neat and I hope to find a pair locally or online for a reasonable price at some point. You’ve got the most detailed information I’ve found on the Red Mottled stocks, thanks for all your help! Do you have a guess on how many guns total came with the Red stocks?

Off topic of Red Mottled stocks. I actually just had a pair of mismatched black hard rubber stocks off of a 4” Baby Russian I bought a couple weeks ago so I could replace them with a pair of the correct stocks. While I had them off I noticed the backs were different, The colors were off(1 black, 1 brown) along with the bottom raised area below the diamond. I don’t know if they’re from two different time periods or subcontractors but it’s the first time I’ve ever noticed a difference. Pics attached.

 

[shown50]

My .32CF, 43K serial range, has the Young style mottled stocks.

You’re not derailing anything, I was hoping this post would turn into a Red Mottled stock picture thread and conversation. Feel free to post a picture of your gun!