deadear dan
Member
Bullseye getting hard to find in my parts, any other suggestions for running loads a bit on the light side? thanks. Using mostly 148gr hbwc. Have 125 and 158gr rnfp as well. thanks.
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reduced loads - bullseye or....?
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Fishinfool
Member
Really depends on what you are loading, but shotgun powders seem more available. Red Dot is an excellent shotgun powder for reduced loads in most handgun cartridges, and data is covered in most loading manuals using this powder.
Larry
Larry
MichiganScott
Member
I burn a bunch of 231, 700X,and PB in light pistol loads, although data for the IMR powders can be hard to find.
I've never even purchased any Bullseye.
I've never even purchased any Bullseye.
Engieman
Member
I agree with the above poster, I like Red Dot in reduced loads as well. Clays and Unique can work, and the Cowboy Action crowd is a big fan of Trail Boss, although I've never tried it.
My favorite, like you, is Bullseye. One-hundred plus years later, despite all the technical and scientific advances; and having tried most of the ones out there over 35 years, I keep coming back to Bullseye for accuracy, performance, and versatility. Forget how clean or dirty the powder is, or the flash, or the noise.....I consider Bullseye the most accurate powder for the Paper Puncher. And the easiest to clean up after. Some of these powder may not make the gun as 'dusty,' but they can bake the carbon on like no other. A 'clean' powder may have other less desirable traits than Bullseye.
I share your concern for Bullseye availability, in fact any of the Alliant Powders. I've heard two things...one, they are devoting their resources to the federal/military orders (Plant is in Radford, VA, 4 hours from DC), and I also heard some rumors of a recent plant fire, which impacted some of their production lines. Who knows. Power Pistol is sort of a 'second-generation' Bullseye formula....I like it a lot as well; and Hodgden Titegroup is a good powder as well. Good luck, buy it when you see it (within reason)
My favorite, like you, is Bullseye. One-hundred plus years later, despite all the technical and scientific advances; and having tried most of the ones out there over 35 years, I keep coming back to Bullseye for accuracy, performance, and versatility. Forget how clean or dirty the powder is, or the flash, or the noise.....I consider Bullseye the most accurate powder for the Paper Puncher. And the easiest to clean up after. Some of these powder may not make the gun as 'dusty,' but they can bake the carbon on like no other. A 'clean' powder may have other less desirable traits than Bullseye.
I share your concern for Bullseye availability, in fact any of the Alliant Powders. I've heard two things...one, they are devoting their resources to the federal/military orders (Plant is in Radford, VA, 4 hours from DC), and I also heard some rumors of a recent plant fire, which impacted some of their production lines. Who knows. Power Pistol is sort of a 'second-generation' Bullseye formula....I like it a lot as well; and Hodgden Titegroup is a good powder as well. Good luck, buy it when you see it (within reason)
Reduced loads for what??????
Maybe caliber or bullet weight or something?
Maybe caliber or bullet weight or something?
Maximumbob54
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I've used starter .38 Long Colt 150gr bullet load data with .38 special cases and 158gr bullets. The bullets were pretty soft Lee round nose tumble lube design coated in LLA. I worried I might end up with a stuck bullet but it never happened. They rattled cans for all kinds of fun.
I've got a couple of pounds of Red Dot. Does anyone have any load recommendations for 9mm 115 g or .40 180g ? It seem a little hard to find data.
stavman11
Member
Really Liking Tightgroup and W231...
Meter great and work well for 9mm and .357 target loads
Havent Tried bullseye YET.... But on my list of TO TRY Powders
Meter great and work well for 9mm and .357 target loads
Havent Tried bullseye YET.... But on my list of TO TRY Powders
American Select will do anything that Bullseye will, but it burns much cleaner. It is primarily a shotgun powder, so it is usually more readily available these days. I have been using it in .45 ACP, 9mm and 12 ga. reloads.
Aticus
Member
If you're lookijng for reduced loads for plinking, targets, etc. try Trailboss. The stuff was developed for cowboy action shooters so they could load large cases for low velocity loads, works great, burns clean (mostly) and is really mild.
retired_diver
Member
OP
deadear dan
Member
Sorry folks, 148gr hbwc mostly, however also have a supply of 158 and 125gr round nose from my sass days. Have a mdl 15-4 I've been playing with.
I have a lot of AS and tried it a few days ago. I'm running short of bullseye so thought I could get by until this shortage is over. It runs clean in my 625 but being a large wafer powder it's hard to meter. I will continue to use it but the next 8 lb can of 231 or BE I find I'm stocking up. AS is my go to 1 oz trap load.
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m657
Member
I'm becoming rather fond of "Universal Clays" in 45 acp ICORE loads.
And I had a dandy 125 gr 38 special recipe for TiteGroup......using factory data sheet.
Also trying out some Blue Dot & cleaning out some of those older mysterious powders lurking back in the rear of the storage magazine in which I never really developed an interest.
And I had a dandy 125 gr 38 special recipe for TiteGroup......using factory data sheet.
Also trying out some Blue Dot & cleaning out some of those older mysterious powders lurking back in the rear of the storage magazine in which I never really developed an interest.
M3Stuart
Member
The hodgdon HP-38 (which is identical to WIN 231) has been around lately. The manual shows the range, with 158gr LSWC/LRN .38 Special, from 3.1 to 4.3 gr. I load light target loads in the 3.2 to 3.4 range. You can load light 9mm, .357, .44 Special, 44 Mag, and 45 ACP with those powders too - all with the more inexpensive, lead bullets. (I'm referring to information in my Hornady book).
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I use W231/HP-38 for most of my .38 Special loading. There are A LOT of powders available for loading target pressure 148gr WC loads.
All of the powders above will do fine especially the faster ones because you won't need to load to the top of the pressure range to produce clean accurate loads.
W231/HP-38, Red Dot, Green Dot, Clays, PB, Promo, 700X, Trail Boss, Zip, AA#2, Solo 1000 and probably a few more I missed too. Those are just the faster powders so there are even more powders available if need be that are slower like Unique, Universal, AA#5 and the like.
I really like W231/HP-38 for Wadcutter and other .38 Special loads and I also like Zip and AA#2 too.
All of the powders above will do fine especially the faster ones because you won't need to load to the top of the pressure range to produce clean accurate loads.
W231/HP-38, Red Dot, Green Dot, Clays, PB, Promo, 700X, Trail Boss, Zip, AA#2, Solo 1000 and probably a few more I missed too. Those are just the faster powders so there are even more powders available if need be that are slower like Unique, Universal, AA#5 and the like.
I really like W231/HP-38 for Wadcutter and other .38 Special loads and I also like Zip and AA#2 too.
AveragEd
Member
Clays Universal looks on paper to be a go-to powder for most handgun loads but unless loaded on the hot side, it won't burn. Hodgdons will tell you that if you call after you discover that with light target loads, your gun, hands and the shooting bench are covered with little tan discs (like I did).
I have tried a lot of the more popular handgun powders - AutoComp, W231 and of course Bullseye and Unique - and found them all filthy and no more accurate for my aging eyes than Clays. Nothing burns cleaner or (for me) more accurately and I test loads from a rest at 25 yards to reduce the aiming errors. I load 2.3 grains under a Hornady or Remington (when I can find them) 148-grain hollow-base wadcutter with a CCI 500 primer. It shoots really soft so it works great for teaching new shooters who have graduated from 22LRs like my daughter-in-law as well as just being enjoyable to shoot for me, too.
Ed
I have tried a lot of the more popular handgun powders - AutoComp, W231 and of course Bullseye and Unique - and found them all filthy and no more accurate for my aging eyes than Clays. Nothing burns cleaner or (for me) more accurately and I test loads from a rest at 25 yards to reduce the aiming errors. I load 2.3 grains under a Hornady or Remington (when I can find them) 148-grain hollow-base wadcutter with a CCI 500 primer. It shoots really soft so it works great for teaching new shooters who have graduated from 22LRs like my daughter-in-law as well as just being enjoyable to shoot for me, too.
Ed
Clays is a good powder for this - easy to spot a double-charge. I don't recommend TiteGroup unless one is loading on a progressive - tiny amount of powder the color of case soot is asking for trouble. TrailBoss will work, but it isn't very economical - but it may be easier to find nowadays.
Basically any of the uber-fast powders.
Basically any of the uber-fast powders.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Sorry to disagree but a double or maybe even a triple charge of Clays in a .38 Special case is very hard to see. When loading a 148gr WC bullet all you need is 2.3gr to 2.5gr of Clays. That little of powder hardly covers the bottom of the case so a double charge will not be easily noticed. (just a word of caution)
I still feel W231/HP-38 is the best choice in the .38 Special. I charge 3.2gr W231 under a 148gr HBWC and 3.5gr W231 under a 148gr DEWC. I stopped using Clays because it doesn't meter well with such small charges and because it's so fast a powder it's reported to spike pressures sometimes. It was clean and accurate for me though.
rsrocket1
Member
Implying from your post, I assume you are talking about 38 special.
As others noted, Red Dot and Clays are superior to Bullseye for reduced recoil loads. While Bullseye is always claimed to be one of the fastest powders, it really burns closer to Unique as a medium speed powder. Just look at the potential velocites it can produce. Much closer to Unique/Universal that to Red Dot/Clays.
I've found that reduced loads of Bullseye work, but like Unique, it isn't happy. It produced much more smoke, soot and unburned flakes at the lower pressures. Bullseye tends to turn my stainless revolver into what looks like a blued revolver within 100 rounds and while the soot doesn't build up to clog anything, it just makes cleaning a little more time consuming.
Along with Red Dot and Clays, you can try Titewad (nearly equivalent loads as Clays by weight), Promo (exact same loads by weight as Red Dot), American Select, Clay Dot and if you can find it Extra Lite <- although it is probably not recommended because this is for 3/4 oz 12 gauge shotshell and may even be faster than Clays/Titewad.
700X and 800X were used extensively for pistol loads long ago and will still be good, although they have large flakes and some folks can't get these powders to measure properly.
BTW Clays does not spike. People tend to claim that a fast powder overcharge-overpressure as a spike. A spike is a discontinuous sudden increase in peak pressure with a small increase in charge. If 3.8g is safe and 3.9g is a kaboom, that's a spike. If 3.8g is good 4.3g seems better and 5g is a kaboom, that is not a spike, it's someone not following load instructions.
As others noted, Red Dot and Clays are superior to Bullseye for reduced recoil loads. While Bullseye is always claimed to be one of the fastest powders, it really burns closer to Unique as a medium speed powder. Just look at the potential velocites it can produce. Much closer to Unique/Universal that to Red Dot/Clays.
I've found that reduced loads of Bullseye work, but like Unique, it isn't happy. It produced much more smoke, soot and unburned flakes at the lower pressures. Bullseye tends to turn my stainless revolver into what looks like a blued revolver within 100 rounds and while the soot doesn't build up to clog anything, it just makes cleaning a little more time consuming.
Along with Red Dot and Clays, you can try Titewad (nearly equivalent loads as Clays by weight), Promo (exact same loads by weight as Red Dot), American Select, Clay Dot and if you can find it Extra Lite <- although it is probably not recommended because this is for 3/4 oz 12 gauge shotshell and may even be faster than Clays/Titewad.
700X and 800X were used extensively for pistol loads long ago and will still be good, although they have large flakes and some folks can't get these powders to measure properly.
BTW Clays does not spike. People tend to claim that a fast powder overcharge-overpressure as a spike. A spike is a discontinuous sudden increase in peak pressure with a small increase in charge. If 3.8g is safe and 3.9g is a kaboom, that's a spike. If 3.8g is good 4.3g seems better and 5g is a kaboom, that is not a spike, it's someone not following load instructions.
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