My 2 cents - and some of this has already been stated. I use a lot of range brass too. I have the same dies that you do. First step is to re-size and deprime the brass. Next, I run it through the Lee Bulge Buster. Much has been said here, but I use a 180 grain bullet and I have had good luck with WSF powder. I do use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. The secret to the Factory crimp die is to set it to the correct crimp diameter but dont over do it. After you have loaded and crimped a round, do not run it back through any other die. If you have done the steps correctly, there is no need to. I have used this process on about 3000 rounds now and have never had a FTL or FTF. Not a single problem. Good luck.
Reliable 40 S&W Load
- Thread starter MYM&P
- Start date
Paul5388
US Veteran
That may well be true in some instances, but Bullseye is certainly used at lesser levels in the .40 S&W and it seems to operate the slide fully in those instances. So, why would even more Bullseye fail to operate the slide fully?
As far as I can see, with a limited amount of data, the load he is using is actually a mid level 10mm load with a 200 gr bullet and Bullseye in 10mm brass, according to Lyman 49th edition. However, he's using .40 S&W brass, which should increase the pressures, momentum and etc. That may severely decrease the life of the gun and could even be more than the gun will continue to take.
I recently loaded my first .40 S&W, even though I don't even own one. With properly set dies and a published load of SR 4756, they fired, fed and did as good as can be expected out of a Glock.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Paul,
I was with you until this part!
My Glock 22 RTF is one of the most reliable firearms I have ever owned. My son trusts his life (in a manner of speaking) to one everyday as an officer and I think, your SIL does too.
Ugly as they are, as poorly supported as the first ones were, now, they are a standard sidearm of thousands and thousands of police officers. The sad truth is, that ugly thing works and works pretty well. Lots of improvements have been made. I see the improvements in the same light as "enhancement packages" for some of the needy Smith & Wesson revolvers, or the poorly designed M19 or...........
I do have to admit though, my SIL has the G22 now. I am carrying a Glock 21SF and simply love having 14 rounds of 45ACP (with my cast hollow points in it) in one magazine and the tube! 13 more are ready in my coat pocket in one magazine!
I like that!
Paul5388
US Veteran
If you'll remember Skip, it was my SIL that had a KABOOM with his Glock in .45 acp that Glock didn't stand behind. He is also the one using a Glock as a duty weapon with another one as a backup. But alas he has no choice about what kind of cheap plastic junk he gets issued and he only carries one for a backup because it uses the same magazines. He would rather be carrying his Commander.
I think I have one handgun that doesn't have a hammer, a Nazi Astra 200 in .32 acp. As soon as I find a buyer for it, I won't have any without a hammer.
If I need more rounds available, I just use a couple of 30 rounders.
I think I have one handgun that doesn't have a hammer, a Nazi Astra 200 in .32 acp. As soon as I find a buyer for it, I won't have any without a hammer.
If I need more rounds available, I just use a couple of 30 rounders.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Yeah, I remember. Were those some of you super rounds? Just kidding!
The 40S&W is a great round, and really, Glocks are pretty good firearms. Those 30 round magazines are a bit harder to conceal than my 13 rounders. Of course, there in the wild west, why bother concealing anything! Don't they get snagged on your coat when you draw your weapon though?
Not all that practical for the normal CCW setup.
This isn't very practical either but then again, it only gets this barrel at the range!
The 40S&W is a great round, and really, Glocks are pretty good firearms. Those 30 round magazines are a bit harder to conceal than my 13 rounders.
Of course, there in the wild west, why bother concealing anything! Don't they get snagged on your coat when you draw your weapon though? Not all that practical for the normal CCW setup.
This isn't very practical either but then again, it only gets this barrel at the range!
Paul5388
US Veteran
I really shouldn't have called it "cheap plastic junk" and should have just let it go as just being something I won't buy. I have noticed that some, who can't hit the broad side of a barn with a Glock, actually shoot quite well with a M14.
creweldragon
Member
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- 2
Hi,
I just bought a Springfield emp 40 sw. I am looking for information about the design criteria used to create the factory rounds. Specifically I am looking for velocity and bullet weight as a starting point. I plan to use the medium speed powders like unique --- blue dot.
I know the short barrel is an issue thus the medium speed pistol powders.
I agree with some of the above comments. Use the same make of brass. When I started doing that my groups shrank from 12 inches to two or three. Case constancy (processing) is also important. Jacketed bullets will probably give the best accuracy. Lead is very good when you want lots of practice ammo. If you make your own bullets a gas check will help reduce the leading. I ended up designing my own bullet for some of my pistols (44 mag and 500 sw). I use about 200 rounds when I go to the range. The difference between $1 to $3 per round for the 500 and $2 - $4 per box is enormous, particularly when you are retired.
So much for the ramble. Any ideas about the 40 sw loads.
I just bought a Springfield emp 40 sw. I am looking for information about the design criteria used to create the factory rounds. Specifically I am looking for velocity and bullet weight as a starting point. I plan to use the medium speed powders like unique --- blue dot.
I know the short barrel is an issue thus the medium speed pistol powders.
I agree with some of the above comments. Use the same make of brass. When I started doing that my groups shrank from 12 inches to two or three. Case constancy (processing) is also important. Jacketed bullets will probably give the best accuracy. Lead is very good when you want lots of practice ammo. If you make your own bullets a gas check will help reduce the leading. I ended up designing my own bullet for some of my pistols (44 mag and 500 sw). I use about 200 rounds when I go to the range. The difference between $1 to $3 per round for the 500 and $2 - $4 per box is enormous, particularly when you are retired.
So much for the ramble. Any ideas about the 40 sw loads.
I shoot USPSA, IDPA, and 3-gun, and own, and shoot 8 pistols in .40. On average, I shoot about 10k a year of ammo I load. MOST of my .40 loads have Titegroup, or, VV320 in them.
OP--Maybe I missed it, but, does your pistol run 100% with any kind of factory ammo?
OP--Maybe I missed it, but, does your pistol run 100% with any kind of factory ammo?
armsmaster270
US Veteran
When the .40 first came out it had a 180gr bullet. The 165 is a better load IMHO.
Results
Good morning all,
thought I would take a moment to post changes I made and the results. The load I am now using is:
180 grain MG fmj
5.2 grains Bullseye
1.130 col
I have stopped using the lee budge buster and started using the lee factory crimp die. This last Friday the case gauges that I ordered finally came and I reloaded 250 rounds and ran each round thru the case gauge. I found that 16 rounds would not pass. I also found that if I ran the rejected rounds back thru the FCD. about half would then camber. This weekend I shot 2 matches. Over the course of the 2 days and about 225 rounds I had 2 fail to feed. and 3 fail to camber on load and make ready command (don't know what that's about but is not a big deal at this time). Over all a great improvement in the guns performance and was very happy. Thanks again for all the advice it worked out well.
enjoy the day
J.R.
P.S now I need to find another excuse to justify my poor scores
Good morning all,
thought I would take a moment to post changes I made and the results. The load I am now using is:
180 grain MG fmj
5.2 grains Bullseye
1.130 col
I have stopped using the lee budge buster and started using the lee factory crimp die. This last Friday the case gauges that I ordered finally came and I reloaded 250 rounds and ran each round thru the case gauge. I found that 16 rounds would not pass. I also found that if I ran the rejected rounds back thru the FCD. about half would then camber. This weekend I shot 2 matches. Over the course of the 2 days and about 225 rounds I had 2 fail to feed. and 3 fail to camber on load and make ready command (don't know what that's about but is not a big deal at this time). Over all a great improvement in the guns performance and was very happy. Thanks again for all the advice it worked out well.
enjoy the day
J.R.
P.S now I need to find another excuse to justify my poor scores
This is still too high of failure rate even though it is an improvement in your words.
Checking things with your case gauge is a great quality control measure although I must confess to rarely using mine for anything other than the initial set up of the dies.
As a check on things, I think I would take your sized but not charged brass and see it they fit easily into your gauge. If they simply drop in as they should then there is a problem being introduced by some other aspect of your process.
The next check would be to seat the bullet without a crimp at all and then use your gauge again. If they drop in easily then you have eliminated the sizing and seating process as your problem source.
Lastly, re-set your die for the crimp that you have been using and again drop your rounds in the gauge, if they drop in freely you are good to go, if not or if there are a few that don't then that tells you there is a problem in the crimp process.
Usually too much crimp is applied which can have the effect of slightly bulging the case which makes it difficult to chamber. You can then start to back off the amount of crimp until you have 100% functioning into your gauge.
The rounds that you were having problems with can be checked by taking the de-capping rod out of the sizing die and then re-size. If they chamber properly and smoothly after that, it again indicates there is a problem in the crimping process.
Long post ...I know, I hope it helps you out somehow. Let us know what turned out.
Glad you had fun at the matches!!
Randy
Checking things with your case gauge is a great quality control measure although I must confess to rarely using mine for anything other than the initial set up of the dies.
As a check on things, I think I would take your sized but not charged brass and see it they fit easily into your gauge. If they simply drop in as they should then there is a problem being introduced by some other aspect of your process.
The next check would be to seat the bullet without a crimp at all and then use your gauge again. If they drop in easily then you have eliminated the sizing and seating process as your problem source.
Lastly, re-set your die for the crimp that you have been using and again drop your rounds in the gauge, if they drop in freely you are good to go, if not or if there are a few that don't then that tells you there is a problem in the crimp process.
Usually too much crimp is applied which can have the effect of slightly bulging the case which makes it difficult to chamber. You can then start to back off the amount of crimp until you have 100% functioning into your gauge.
The rounds that you were having problems with can be checked by taking the de-capping rod out of the sizing die and then re-size. If they chamber properly and smoothly after that, it again indicates there is a problem in the crimping process.
Long post ...I know, I hope it helps you out somehow. Let us know what turned out.
Glad you had fun at the matches!!
Randy
Paul5388
US Veteran
If you use the resizing die a second time, even without the decapping pin, it's going to deform the bullet as it resizes it too.
I would set the crimp to just take the bell/flare out and see if that doesn't fix the problem.
I would set the crimp to just take the bell/flare out and see if that doesn't fix the problem.
Maximumbob54
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 7,202
- Reaction score
- 1,928
Good morning all,
thought I would take a moment to post changes I made and the results. The load I am now using is:
180 grain MG fmj
5.2 grains Bullseye
1.130 col
I have stopped using the lee budge buster and started using the lee factory crimp die. This last Friday the case gauges that I ordered finally came and I reloaded 250 rounds and ran each round thru the case gauge. I found that 16 rounds would not pass. I also found that if I ran the rejected rounds back thru the FCD. about half would then camber. This weekend I shot 2 matches. Over the course of the 2 days and about 225 rounds I had 2 fail to feed. and 3 fail to camber on load and make ready command (don't know what that's about but is not a big deal at this time). Over all a great improvement in the guns performance and was very happy. Thanks again for all the advice it worked out well.
enjoy the day
J.R.
P.S now I need to find another excuse to justify my poor scores
I had stayed out of this thread because I figured that greater minds than my own were prevailing.
BUT…
I'm still at a loss to the back and forth on the bulge buster and the factory crimp die. Neither product as far as I see is being used correctly here and no one seems to be fully pointing this out. I may end up having to swallow some of my words if I get this wrong, but this is what I see going wrong here so far:
The Lee Bulge Buster kit is made to work with the die body from the Carbide FCD. You take the guts out of the FCD and add the Bulge Buster kit. You then run all your suspect range pick up brass through the die. You have now removed any possible bulged cases and they should all be roughly uniform in diameter. (I am assuming you have already prepped the cases by first running them through some kind of cleaner like a tumbler) Now that they have been through the Bulge Buster, they still need to go through your sizing die. The carbide post sizing ring in the FCD is not the same diameter as the sizing die. The FCD is made so that with a standard size bullet that should match your bore, the carbide ring will only "kiss" the sides of the case as it does a final sizing of the loaded cartridge. My .401" cast bullets almost never do more than just kiss the case and hardly have any friction as they head in for the crimp. The trouble is that not all case walls are the same thickness. You will feel as the bullet is seated in the first place that there is just a slight extra amount of force required to seat the bullet into that case. Or at least you would if you were using either a single stage press or a turret that loads one cartridge at a time. This feeling of the case in action by the press is negated with you go to a progressive press since there are so many actions going on at the same time. I guess if you are really paying super attention and your nerves are in peak condition then you might still catch it, but it's much more difficult. So if I'm using my own cast and sized lead bullets and they are sized at .401" then I know I can still use the FCD and the post sizing carbide ring will only swage the bullet down if I have a case with too thick of a wall. So what is the diameter on the Montana Gold bullets??? And keep in mind that if you want to use range trash pick up brass then these are the kinds of issues you will have to put up with since this is very much a "can't have your cake and eat it too" type of deal. If the cases aren't consistent, then you are starting with inconsistency and can only end up with inconsistency. To achieve the peak level of reloading, you must fight any and all chances of inconsistency if you are demanding loads that are better than factory. If you want the FCD to just swage the bullet down to let the case fit the chamber, that's fine and it should feed in, but don't expect that bullet to not lead the barrel and have poor accuracy.
Last, I don't know what the bullet profile is that is in use here. My Lee mold is casting a SWC that is really more of a truncated cone shape bullet. If my Sigma can gobble them up with no issue then I don't see why a M&P would have issue. So another possible fix to this issue could be changing to a different bullet nose profile. Even if it is a round nose, there may be too much in the nose dragging on the feed ramp and bogging the cartridge down too much as to goes to feed from the magazine.
OK, that last part was supposed to be last, but this one is only conjecture on my part. I'm still trying to figure out is a light tumble lube in some thinned alox helps to in effect lube the bullet as it is feeding up the ramp heading to the chamber. I can't swear to that one since I don't have any issue with any of my guns feeding any of my cast bullets. So I can't honestly say that since all my cast bullets are tumble lubed even if they are run through my Lyman 450 first… That's too much of an assumption. But it's a darn good assumption. Maybe try a small bottle of LLA and tumble these Montana Gold bullets and see if that helps any. Just don't overdo it with the alox. You want a very thin film once it's dry.
If this is all bunk, then someone feel free to debunk me...
If I have missed it, I am sorry, but anywhere in this thread have you indicated if your pistol is 100% (or darned close to it) reliable in your hands with good-quality factory ammunition?
I am asking that because determining that should always be your first step in diagnosing any handloading problem. If you are reliable with factory ammo - good, proceed. If not, back-up, since it's likely you have a gun/magazine problem, or possibly a shooter problem (limp-wristing) - maybe even both.
Beyond that, if you are using a bullet design suitable for your gun and cartridge, and the ammunition drops into a maximum ammunition gauge, you should not be having the trouble you describe. Montana Gold bullets are good quality and should work fine in your M&P .40.
I do not use either FCD or other "extraordinary" dies. My .40 SW handloads made using Dillon press and standard dies have always worked fine in my various .40s. Every ten-twenty rounds, I check a cartridge with a Wilson gauge. If the loaded cartridge will not go in the gauge, it's likely you have an abused or worn-out case on your hands and it should be discarded. All ammunition should drop into the gauge and fall clear from it when you turn the gauge upside down.
I am asking that because determining that should always be your first step in diagnosing any handloading problem. If you are reliable with factory ammo - good, proceed. If not, back-up, since it's likely you have a gun/magazine problem, or possibly a shooter problem (limp-wristing) - maybe even both.
Beyond that, if you are using a bullet design suitable for your gun and cartridge, and the ammunition drops into a maximum ammunition gauge, you should not be having the trouble you describe. Montana Gold bullets are good quality and should work fine in your M&P .40.
I do not use either FCD or other "extraordinary" dies. My .40 SW handloads made using Dillon press and standard dies have always worked fine in my various .40s. Every ten-twenty rounds, I check a cartridge with a Wilson gauge. If the loaded cartridge will not go in the gauge, it's likely you have an abused or worn-out case on your hands and it should be discarded. All ammunition should drop into the gauge and fall clear from it when you turn the gauge upside down.
ImjinScout
Member
Just thought I would add my 2 cents also, I have loaded a lot .40S&W lately, around 3000 rounds. I don't have any of those dies that are mentioned eg. FCD and bulge buster.
I load Berry's 180gr FP and just size and de-prime and then load them up, I do however use a separate taper crimp instead of using the seater die. I load them to a COL of 1.125 +/-.003 and crimp them to .422 to .423. I have shot these through my S&W4003TSW, an M&P and also my FNX with no issues at all. Seems like something else may be going on. On a side not I use Hornady dies on my LNL press,
I load Berry's 180gr FP and just size and de-prime and then load them up, I do however use a separate taper crimp instead of using the seater die. I load them to a COL of 1.125 +/-.003 and crimp them to .422 to .423. I have shot these through my S&W4003TSW, an M&P and also my FNX with no issues at all. Seems like something else may be going on. On a side not I use Hornady dies on my LNL press,
m657
Member
adding to the general confusion here, I've been loading 40S&W for going on 4 years, tens of thousands of rounds.
For my own personal use, I've established this:
It's a waste of time for me to expect to have reliable reloads for my Glock 23. I prefer cast 180g, and after much effort, research, review of the combined suggestions of the gents in this reloading section, to recognize there is some infortuitous concatenation of circumstance, that continues to yield something in the 2-3% range of FTF error that is unacceptable in either match or SD applications.
I use 650 press with FCD station 5 as directed by Lee tekkies. I meticulously measure all stages for proper metrics. My reject rate has fallen from 30%, so I'm mostly happy with my results.
What I have managed to do, is find a way to build spectacular fodder for my S&W m610 revolver, which now had virtually 100% function on my home built ammo.
I have determined to use only factory ammo should I need to use my Glock.
One of the biggest sound-of- one-hand-smacking-forehead moments, was to finally (FINALLY!!!) get the crimp set properly!!!
On the other hand, while I reject my own 40s reloads for my G23, the entire exercise has sharpened up my game in building reliable 9mms for the G34!!! So perhaps the heartaches, headaches, expense of time and effort were worth it.
For my own personal use, I've established this:
It's a waste of time for me to expect to have reliable reloads for my Glock 23. I prefer cast 180g, and after much effort, research, review of the combined suggestions of the gents in this reloading section, to recognize there is some infortuitous concatenation of circumstance, that continues to yield something in the 2-3% range of FTF error that is unacceptable in either match or SD applications.
I use 650 press with FCD station 5 as directed by Lee tekkies. I meticulously measure all stages for proper metrics. My reject rate has fallen from 30%, so I'm mostly happy with my results.
What I have managed to do, is find a way to build spectacular fodder for my S&W m610 revolver, which now had virtually 100% function on my home built ammo.
I have determined to use only factory ammo should I need to use my Glock.
One of the biggest sound-of- one-hand-smacking-forehead moments, was to finally (FINALLY!!!) get the crimp set properly!!!
On the other hand, while I reject my own 40s reloads for my G23, the entire exercise has sharpened up my game in building reliable 9mms for the G34!!! So perhaps the heartaches, headaches, expense of time and effort were worth it.
Beans
Member
I have been using reloaded ammo in my G35 and G23. I am using range pick up brass, WSP primers, Clays and homecast 180 Gr RNFP bullets, cast from water quenched wheel weights, for about 4 1/2 years..
I shoot on the average of 300 rds per month of this handloaded ammo without any problems.
I have replaced the stock Glock barrel with one from Storm lake and my wifes Glocks used a barrel from Lone wolf. No problems in either weapon. I was using the EWG die made by Lee until I got the Dillon dies and that ended any problems with bulged brass.
I shoot on the average of 300 rds per month of this handloaded ammo without any problems.
I have replaced the stock Glock barrel with one from Storm lake and my wifes Glocks used a barrel from Lone wolf. No problems in either weapon. I was using the EWG die made by Lee until I got the Dillon dies and that ended any problems with bulged brass.
Last edited:
Good morning all,
Thanks for all the great reply's, lots to think about (whew) To reply to some of the questions the pistol functions about 99% using factory loads.I have given a lot of thought to the problem being with my grip but have been told that if you are limp wristing the pistol the the failure would be a stovepipe (failure to eject) is this correct? The only problem I am having is failure to feed. 1 point that was brought up was that brought up was that when using the case gauge the round should load freely and unload freely I have found that some rounds goes in freely but I had to give a little help to get out of the gauge didn't give that much thought but was wondering what would cause the round to hang up coming out of the gauge? I am using a flat point bullet that I have found common in factory ammo. I will throw 1 more can of gas into the fire, the other day I took my carry gun (kahr cw40) to the range for some practice I normally use only factory loads in this gun but decided to run my reloads through it, the pistol functioned perfectly as usual. Logic would dictate that the M&P just doesn't like reloads, but I don't think I am willing to accept that quiet yet. Again it should be said that the functioning of the pistol has greatly improved but it is not 100% yet. Maybe as suggested that using range brass and lee reloading equipment this is all that can be expected. Thanks again for your insights and patience with a rookie re-loader but this has become a project for me to be able to get this pistol to function perfectly with reloads and I don't want to give up on it until I have exhausted all the possibility.
J.R.
Thanks for all the great reply's, lots to think about (whew) To reply to some of the questions the pistol functions about 99% using factory loads.I have given a lot of thought to the problem being with my grip but have been told that if you are limp wristing the pistol the the failure would be a stovepipe (failure to eject) is this correct? The only problem I am having is failure to feed. 1 point that was brought up was that brought up was that when using the case gauge the round should load freely and unload freely I have found that some rounds goes in freely but I had to give a little help to get out of the gauge didn't give that much thought but was wondering what would cause the round to hang up coming out of the gauge? I am using a flat point bullet that I have found common in factory ammo. I will throw 1 more can of gas into the fire, the other day I took my carry gun (kahr cw40) to the range for some practice I normally use only factory loads in this gun but decided to run my reloads through it, the pistol functioned perfectly as usual. Logic would dictate that the M&P just doesn't like reloads, but I don't think I am willing to accept that quiet yet. Again it should be said that the functioning of the pistol has greatly improved but it is not 100% yet. Maybe as suggested that using range brass and lee reloading equipment this is all that can be expected. Thanks again for your insights and patience with a rookie re-loader but this has become a project for me to be able to get this pistol to function perfectly with reloads and I don't want to give up on it until I have exhausted all the possibility.
J.R.
