Reloading for a 6" 686

[redundantdunderhead]

Brand new to this forum ...thank you in advance for everone's expertise and knowledge.

I am curious if anyone has any experience with reloading the HORNADY XTP 140gr bullets. The differing data for powder (IMR4227) I have read is quite baffling.
In the COMPLETE RELOADING MANUAL FOR 357 Magnum
15.3-16.1 is listed. test barrel length unknown.
SPEER'S Manual 17.2-19.2 test barrel length unknown.
HODGDON's Website has a 10" test barrel with 11- 13gr of powder listed.
I don't want to blow up my pistol but would like to get as much out of using this particular bullet for which it was designed.
I am using Small Magnum Primers.

Oh and incidentally, the powder dipper that came with my LEE Dies .7 cc is weighing out to 8.7 gr of IMR4227....nowhere near any of the above mentioned loads.

 

[OKFC05]

OK, first you don't use dippers for ANY near max load. Weigh and use reliable data for starting, and don't start with the MAX recommended load.
If you want to see how you're doing on MV, use a chrono. Each gun is different, and "test barrels" are different than actual revolvers.
When you say you want to "get the most out of this bullet", what are your criteria? Highest MV? Best accuracy? Biggest fireball and blast? Most effective on a game animal?

Highest MV seldom goes with best accuracy.
I use WIN 296 for high-power .357 hunting loads. See Hodgdon loading web site for data.

 

[Univibe]

Make sure you are comparing the right 4227 data. There are two powders by that name.

I load for 6 inch 686. But I use Accurate Arms powders.

Best sources for load data, in order of trustworthiness:

1. Powder manufacturer's recent sheets, online.

2. For lead loads, Lyman manual. For jacketed loads, specific bullet maker's manuals, e.g. Speer manual for Speer bullets.

3. Articles based on testing from publications such as American Rifleman.

4. Internet forums.

5. Billy Bob down the street.

 

[Abflyboy]

Just my opinion but I wouldn't push a 686 that hard. Your gun won't like it. They tend to be happy and STAY happy topped out at 1200 - 1250 fps.

If you want big velocity numbers, get an 'N' frame to play with.

Powder dippers aren't really a good idea when playing with magnum loads.

A quick search about your powder and published charge weights seems suspicious. I would start with Hodgdon's data and lots of chrono work to establish what you are actually putting together.

My simple opinion, worth what you paid for it, YMMV

 

[alwslate]

Speer used a 6" S&W model 19 which is a smaller framed gun than yours.
You can use Speer data without worrying about damaging your 686
because IMR4227 is really a bit too slow for top velocities in the .357.
Better powders are 2400 and 296/H110.

 

[rh73]

Hodgdon's data with imr4227 for the hornady ftx 140gr bullet is 13gr max.
Their data for the 140gr xtp bullet is a max load of 18gr of H4227. The ftx and xtp bullets are substantially different.

Lyman lists 15-17.8gr imr4227 for a speer 140gr jhp, which is a lot more like an xtp bullet than the ftx bullet is.

You could contact Hodgdon and see if h4227 data can be used with imr4227.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I am curious if anyone has any experience with reloading the HORNADY XTP 140gr bullets.
The differing data for powder (IMR4227) I have read is quite baffling.
HODGDON's Website has a 10" test barrel with 11- 13gr of powder listed.

Hodgdon has said they are not the same (H4227 & IMR4227) but you can use the starting load & work your way up watching for pressure signs.

The Hodgdon data you reference IS NOT for the HDY 140gr XTP.

It is for the HDY 140gr FTX bullet.

They are not of the same style bullet & can not be used interchangeably even though they are the same weight.

This is why that load data is so far different.

Buy a scale to measure your powder charges.

.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In my 686 6" with IMR4227 powder I got the following;

Win 110 SJHP............ compressed load at 1290fps
Hor 125 XTP ................. " .................. 1230fps
Hor 140 XTP ................. " ................... 1185fps

158 LSWC .................. 12gr ................ 976fps (Target)

This powder works but there are better powders for this caliber.

 

[redundantdunderhead]

Hodgdon has said they are not the same (H4227 & IMR4227) but you can use the starting load & work your way up watching for pressure signs.

The Hodgdon data you reference IS NOT for the HDY 140gr XTP.

It is for the HDY 140gr FTX bullet.

They are not of the same style bullet & can not be used interchangeably even though they are the same weight.

This is why that load data is so far different.

Buy a scale to measure your powder charges.

.

Yes sir, however, I used hodgdon's data center and checked all powders from all manufacturers which brought up the XTP and noticed IMR 4227 vanished from the list and H4227 appeared.
Now there begins that whole debate IMR-H 4227 Same not the same...

 

[redundantdunderhead]

Just my opinion but I wouldn't push a 686 that hard. Your gun won't like it. They tend to be happy and STAY happy topped out at 1200 - 1250 fps.

If you want big velocity numbers, get an 'N' frame to play with.

Powder dippers aren't really a good idea when playing with magnum loads.

A quick search about your powder and published charge weights seems suspicious. I would start with Hodgdon's data and lots of chrono work to establish what you are actually putting together.

My simple opinion, worth what you paid for it, YMMV

Thank you sir...that is exactly what I wanted to achieve... looking for that sweet spot in velocity and recoil. I of course do not want to sacrifice accuracy.

 

[redundantdunderhead]

Firstly, I do prefer the scale to measure powder. I am detail oriented and consistent doing this. Precision and consistency is key for me.

and to OKFC05 Thank you sir, accuracy is my goal here. Not big speed...I would ultimately like to use this round for pistol hunting in the VERY near future. So XTP performance on a game animal is also of interest.

Sincerely, thank you all...I am learning quite a lot, and enjoying every bit of it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

"Don't push the 686 that hard........."

With 4227 powder, you got to be kidding me !!

Give me a break !!

 

[dogdoc]

I would not hesitate to push my 686s to max loads with any bullet. They built it to stand up to steady magnum usage. Hell a model 66 is way stronger than than the internet keyboard junkies would have you think. One I purchased new in 1984 is going strong with many many magnums through it. Do you think you will live forever?

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Yes sir, however, I used hodgdon's data center and checked all powders from all manufacturers which brought up the XTP and noticed IMR 4227 vanished from the list and H4227 appeared.
Now there begins that whole debate IMR-H 4227 Same not the same...

IMR4227 is still there in limited listings.

Search "by the powder only" to find what cartridges are still listed for it.

H4227 & IMR4227 used be listed together more often than now.

Here's a couple of the recipes, that are still there, that show them both & with identical data, below.

Argument over.

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357 Magnum, 158gr HDY XTP, rifle data
44 Magnum, 240gr Nosler JHP, rifle data
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