Reloading for the S&W Model 52.

[USSR]

I recently picked up a 52-2. Since I cast bullets, I have a lot of options. In addition to a H&G #50 (148gr flat base wadcutter), I have a mold that casts 148gr HBWC's. My primary question is, what size are you sizing them to? I can size them any where from .357" to .360". Also, I have read of the problem of bullet stability falling off at 50 yards. Velocity is limited on HBWC's due to the possibility of blowing off the skirt of the hollow base by increasing the charge weight/velocity. Seems to me that the regular flat base wadcutter would be a better candidate for 50 yards, but how much extra velocity can the 52 take in that regard. Thanks in advance for your reply.

Don

 

[rockquarry]

I recently picked up a 52-2. Since I cast bullets, I have a lot of options. In addition to a H&G #50 (148gr flat base wadcutter), I have a mold that casts 148gr HBWC's. My primary question is, what size are you sizing them to? I can size them any where from .357" to .360". Also, I have read of the problem of bullet stability falling off at 50 yards. Velocity is limited on HBWC's due to the possibility of blowing off the skirt of the hollow base by increasing the charge weight/velocity. Seems to me that the regular flat base wadcutter would be a better candidate for 50 yards, but how much extra velocity can the 52 take in that regard. Thanks in advance for your reply.

Don

There are many threads here on loading for 52s. Briefly, and based on results using only one model 52, I tried the H&G #50 sized to .356", .357", and .358" (actual sized bullet diameter is closer to .3575"). .358" die worked best for bullets in my gun. 2.5 grs. Bullseye ( I think around 750 fps) was more accurate than heavier charges. Do a search and you'll find more information than you want. Good luck-

 

[austintexas]

What he said, I don't load for velocity in my 52, I load for accuracy and I like the HBWC.
SWCA 892

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

I've had best results with 148 gr HBWC's sized to .358. The double end wadcutters shot nearly the same, slight edge to the HB variety at least in my 52-2. 2.7 - 2.8 gr Bullseye, load, shoot, repeat. It's the simple pleasures...

 

[Nevada Ed]

My old Speer manual has a 148 HB wadcutter with a .358 Dia for the S&W M52.
It list eight powders for the lighest loads giiving relieable functioning and accuracy.
The fps range from a low of 713 up to 775 for the starting loads.

Bullet to barrel fit and the correct fps is the key with a soft HBwc bullet in a M52 for light duty target work.
If you need 850fps or more go to the BBwc design if the HBwc does not pan out

 

[boatbum101]

One can use cast both HB & FB . H&G made a mould DEWC for the 52 IIRC #244 ? . Bore sizes on 52's run .354 - .356 . I used to use both the Rem & Zero swaged HBWC for NRA matches . Gil Hebard did a study many years ago with handloads & cast vs factory HBWC . It involved I believe 6 guns & mucho ammo all shot out of Ransom Rests @ 50yds . Short story factory with their swaged HBWC @ 700fps took the cake .
I can tell you what works for me : R-P cases , Fed 100 prmr , Rem 148 ( prefered ) or Zero 148 HBWC , 3.2grs W231 , seated flush , taper crimp .369 .

 

[Protocall_Design]

The 3.2 of 231 is very close to 2.8 of Bullseye for velocity. Seat flush, if the bullet sticks out any, it can jam the rounds in the magazine and not feed well.

 

[GBertolet]

My 52-1 has a bore of .355. I have tried bullets of .355, .356. 357, and .358. The .358 shoots the best in my 52.

 

[USBP SW]

I would add that thick brass, i.e. military, +p,is not recommended. The long wadcutters are seated deep in the case and bulge it to the point where it won't chamber.

 

[boatbum101]

Generally speaking the fattest lead bullet that will chamber will be most accurate .

 

[rockquarry]

Generally speaking the fattest lead bullet that will chamber will be most accurate .

You might have to make concessions in some instances, maybe with revolvers, but that's generally very good advice when using conventionally lubricated cast bullets in rifles or handguns. As long as a cartridge will chamber without difficulty, the bullet diameter is likely okay. Example: a .310" or .311" bullet in a .30 caliber rifle cartridge.

 

[boatbum101]

Did say generally............Rifles fill the throat with the caveat if it'll chamber . Revolvers cylinder throats assuming they're larger than bore , if not they need reaming / honing , size to match . Semi-auto again what'll chamber & many barrels could stand throating if you like cast bullets .

 

[rockquarry]

Did say generally............Rifles fill the throat with the caveat if it'll chamber . Revolvers cylinder throats assuming they're larger than bore , if not they need reaming / honing , size to match . Semi-auto again what'll chamber & many barrels could stand throating if you like cast bullets .

Yes, you did, and I overlooked it.

 

[gwpercle]

Slug your barrel ... then add .001" and see how they group .
I would also try +.002" just for the sake of testing ... you never know .
If you are casting your own flat based wadcutters don't cast them too hard , hard undersized bullets lead the barrel like all get-out !
Gary

 

[dave1918a2]

I use a HBWC sized .358 cast soft and 2.7 of Bullseye. Most accurate in both My guns.

 

[noylj]

Best are swaged HBWC. Never got decent accuracy with any cast wc.
If I was to size a lead bullet, which I have proven myself hurts accuracy compared to shooting as-cast, I would size 0.360".
M52 is designed for 625-750 fps. Out to 50 yards, the 148gn wc is stable. The.32 S&W long wc loses accuracy between 25 meters and 50 meters, not the 38, even at 650 fps.
If possible, buy factory wad utter ammo first and learn what gun can do and forget old wives tales

 

[rockquarry]

Best are swaged HBWC. Never got decent accuracy with any cast wc.
If I was to size a lead bullet, which I have proven myself hurts accuracy compared to shooting as-cast, I would size 0.360".
M52 is designed for 625-750 fps. Out to 50 yards, the 148gn wc is stable. The.32 S&W long wc loses accuracy between 25 meters and 50 meters, not the 38, even at 650 fps.
If possible, buy factory wad utter ammo first and learn what gun can do and forget old wives tales

Not necessarily true. The brand of factory wadcutter ammo wasn't mentioned; perhaps there's a difference in them. However, it is seldom that a factory load (in anything) can't be surpassed for accuracy by a well-developed handload.

When I bought my 52 used some years ago, several boxes of older Winchester 148 grain match ammo were included. It took some judicious load development work trying different charge weights and bullet diameters and group shooting, but ultimately I was able to get better groups using an H&G #50 cast wadcutter bullet than with the factory ammo.

It seems many handloaders today don't have much interest in load development, but it's usually worth the time and effort expended.

 

[diyj98]

Slug your barrel ... then add .001" and see how they group .
I would also try +.002" just for the sake of testing ... you never know .
If you are casting your own flat based wadcutters don't cast them too hard , hard undersized bullets lead the barrel like all get-out !
Gary

I agree with the "you never know" for sure. Years ago when I was casting bullets for a 45 acp, I found that particular gun shot best with bullets the exact same size as the bore. I'd would have assumed .001 or .002 over would have given the best accuracy.

 

[USSR]

The.32 S&W long wc loses accuracy between 25 meters and 50 meters, not the 38, even at 650 fps.

Most Bullseye Competition shooters who shoot at 50 yards will disagree.

Don

 

[boatbum101]

Problem with both cartridges @ 50yds is barrel twist rate with wadcutter bullets . Serious target guns have been built as fast as 1 in 10 . That's why in the early days of PPC , faster twist ( 1 in 16 ) Colt Python barrels were the rage . Same deal with 32 S&W , factory twist are too slow to effectively stabilize a wadcutter @ 50yds . Plus add the tiny powder charges where a tenth of a grain will make a difference in 50yd group size & most available swaged lead bullets are not sized correctly . If serious about shooting a 32 study Dave Wilsons work with both 32 S&W & 32acp . Eye opening the accuracy potential in a proper platform .
FWIW most Bullseye shooters shoot a 22 & a 45acp . Shooting a sub caliber in CF will most often hurt scores far more than help . Indoors & @ 25yds or 50ft different story if one insists . IMHO one must master the 22 & the 45 , not the others . More trigger time for the 45 , plus it makes a bigger hole .

 

[AJ]

To me and for my purposes I have found 2.8 grains of Bullseye with a 148 grain HBWC does very well. In fact that loading is what I shoot in all my .38 Special chambered handguns.

 

[noylj]

I tried two different brands of factory wadcutter and they both gave groups at least half of any of my reloads.
To come close to factory loads, I had to:
Use unsized cases that were only good in the M52 they had been fired in.
Remington 148gn HBWC, only. All other swaged bullets SUCKED in all three M52s. Don't know what to do now that I am running very low on bullets.
Over flaring case mouth so bullet went about ¼ of bullet in case and was held straight.
Had Lee make flat seating stem with centered drilled out so it wouldn't touch the nose bump.
Use of Redding Profile Crimp die to very slightly roll case mouth. Use of 5 other roll crimp dies were complete failures.
Bullseye, AA2, or 231/HP38 powders.
Factory wadcutters are made to be accurate, just as 32 S&W long wadcutters are made for accuracy.

 

[boatbum101]

R-P brass cases have thinnest walls as do factory WC cases . Great when you're seating Rem 148 HBWC's the fat black nasty ones that shoot like a house on fire . I too agree with as little working of cases possible . Take a Lee FCD , remove all the innards except carbide ring & sling 'em in the trash . Die body with ring is now your sizing die . A Lyman " M " die or similar expander as needed . Seater with stem made to fit bullet profile . I taper crimp ( Redding die ) to .369 . Worked for me awhile so I stick with it .

 

[AJ]

R-P brass cases have thinnest walls as do factory WC cases . Great when you're seating Rem 148 HBWC's the fat black nasty ones that shoot like a house on fire .

Fat black nasty ones? I was loading 148 grain HBWC made by Zero yesterday. These were coated with some kind of slick black graphite? Very messy. Needed 10 minutes with a scrub brush to get my hands clean afterwards.

 

[noylj]

I found even using a fcd with guts out hurt accuracy. For best accuracy, unsized was it.
I would love to know what and how the factories work their magic

 

[boatbum101]

Zero must of changed their lube , for years they used a honey colored grease a tad stiffer than #1 . Remington has used that powdered graphite crud , last case of 148 HBWC were coated much thinner however . FWIW last batch bought 2016 .

 

[AJ]

Zero must of changed their lube , for years they used a honey colored grease a tad stiffer than #1 . Remington has used that powdered graphite crud , last case of 148 HBWC were coated much thinner however . FWIW last batch bought 2016 .

These that I have came from an estate the local gun dealer had purchased. He does not do reloading supplies/equipment. A friend and I bought all the reloading supplies and equipment for $750 and split it. We priced each piece and came to about $2500 worth of stuff. We kept about 95% of it and sold the rest for about $200. Some things date back to the 1970's.

 

[boatbum101]

Late Jerry Keefer used to wash factory lube off & relube with LLA . White Label 45-45-10 is dirt cheap & less mess . Also works well on hardcast commercial bullets with crappy lube .

 

[dawcrw]

Just started loading for my 52. I'm trying to roll crimp first then squeeze a taper crimp over that. Anyone try this?

 

[AJ]

No, have not. Do not see the need to do so. Maybe someone else will say something.