Reloading rifle rounds

[BlueOvalBandit]

Right now I load using primarily 168gr A-Max using either Varget or Reloader-15 (shoots well but tends to be dirty with sub max loads). I've also had good luck with AR-Comp. Available powders today IMR 4166 looks promising, it's new so it doesn't have a lot of demand yet, I'd like to get some when time permits.

I do find mid range loads work best in terms of accuracy. Also something you might want to consider is a comparator. The comparator will allow you to accurately and consistently measure an "OAL". I say it with quotations because OAL is given from base of the rim to tip, but the tip is not a consistent datum point, the ogive of the bullet is. Being able to measure consistently will allow you to set the "jump" the bullet has into the lead and playing with that jump can have a pretty good effect on accuracy.

To find distance to the lead you can do it a couple ways, you can buy a tool like Hornady's OAL gauge or make one and we can get to those later.

I should say regardless of if you take it that far, you definitely will be making better ammunition than factory.

 

[Fishinfool]

If you are loading for an M1a, take a close look at H4895. It, among a few others, operates in the proper pressure curve for this rifle. Some popular .308 powders do not. H4895, when matched with Sierra MK bullets, has been an accurate combo in all my .308 rifles over the years. As noted in previous posts, it is also very well suited for reduced velocity loads, one of the few rifle powders recommended for this use.

Larry

 

[rwsmith]

It was pointed out to me....

4895 is an old but very reliable choice. It could almost be considered to be the Unique of rifle powder. It was designed specifically for the military 30-06 which is very close to the .308. Another benefit is that it can be reduced a lot more than many powders for light loads, which I really like. It can be reduced 40% from max load.

It was pointed out to me that H4895 from Hodgdon is a slightly different powder than IMR 4895 and that the IMR site only directs reducing loads 10%. I don't want to mislead any new reloaders by going against what a manufacturer recommends.

However, in my experience and speaking only for myself I have reduced IMR 4895 40% from the max load provided for IMR 4895 powder in the 30-06. I have had no problems at all with erratic or incomplete ignition that could lead to varying velocity, or at worst, a squib. In fact I'm impressed with how consistent the rounds are. If I want to go lower in velocity, I use IMR 4759 which is designed for reduced loads.

Thanks for the PM putting me straight.

 

[Engineer1911]

The chronograph "doesn't lie"

This information is from my notes and original ammo box.

In my Rem 700 with a 26" custom barrel shooting Federal Gold Medal 308 Win loaded with 168 gr Sierra Matchking BTHP bullets, muzzle velocity = 2,700 fps. OAL = 2.805" , a 100 yard 5 round group was covered by a dime.

My reloads with R-P or Federal brass with Sierra Matchking BTHP bullets, 42.2 gr of IMR 4895, muzzle velocity 2,700 fps shot the same size groups at 100 yards. I loaded 50 rounds 3 days ago with the original jug of powder and went to the range. Quartering cross wind was gusting to 20 mph, group size was 1 bullet diameter tall by 3/4" wide at a 100 yards. Using the Hornady ballistic tables, I hit the steel popper target 3 out of 5 shots at 500 yards. The range officer was surprised at the rifle / ammo accuracy. That was the accuracy load.

The rifle shoots 1/2" groups with 150 gr or 165 gr hunting bullets using IMR 4895 powder. An 11# bolt action rifle is not something you go trekking with in the woods or mountains in pursuit of deer size animals. Using 130 gr HP bullets and Win 748 powder it was great on prairie dogs without beating the shooter up.

 

[scooter123]

My powder choices for 308 are Accurate 2495 or IMR 4064, both have proven to be good accurate powders.

One item I consider essential that has not yet been mentioned is a Case Gage. Lyman and L.e. Wilson both make easy to use case gages that allow you to quickly check if you have the shoulder set correctly and for the overall length. IMO with any high pressure bottleneck caliber a Case Gage of some description is absolutely essential, because it's just not possible to get your dies setup for the correct headspacing without one.

Yeah, someone will probably suggest doing a plunk test. Problem with that in a caliber such as the 308 is that a plunk test will pass a case with excess headspace and excess headspace will cause excess case growth and potentially cause a case head seperation event. Something that is always extremely unpleasant and potentially fatal in the 308.

Bottomline, spend about 30 bucks for a Case Gage. These are available from both Brownells and Midway and if they are out of stock I would wait until I could get one before sizing one single case.

 

[FishingPilot]

.....Bottomline, spend about 30 bucks for a Case Gage.....

Get a case gauge! It will save you a lot of frustration - saves you from going to the range only to learn that 7 of every 10 rounds is too long or not resized correctly.

Midway Lyman Case Length Headspace Gage 308 Winchester

 

[H Richard]

I prefer Varget, but I use it in most of my smaller to medium sized cases. It is very temperature insensitive, and does not vary much from 40 degrees to 100 degrees (which I have found in may-June Prairie Dog shooting). I have loaded my share of 748 and 4064 as well, and some prefer it but they don't get out in weather extremes. When I was working up a Sierra Palma Match load for my Rem. 700 HB I called Sierra, and they advised me they preferred Varget with that bullet.

 

[Rastoff]

...it's just not possible to get your dies setup for the correct headspacing without one.

OK, this is new to me. I thought head space was the distance between the bolt face and the case head when the bolt is fully closed and the case fully seated. How does a case gauge determine that?

The plunk test is easy to do on a pistol. Not so easy on a rifle. I would get a case gauge anyway, but I'm curious as to the above statement.

 

[growr]

I will second the suggestion on the case gauge mainly to ensure proper sizing and casing length....in a semi auto it is critical that the shoulder be set back to its proper pace especially in an M1A.

The load used to replicate military M852 for Service Rifle shooters in NRA High Power Rifle matches is IMR 4895 41.5 grns/ Sierra 168 Match King, LC casings and Federal primers, bullet seated to magazine length....if your gun won't shoot this....your gun is not going to shoot well with most other combinations either.

Randy

 

[bbqncigars]

Remember that your brass should be clean (shiny not needed) and lubed to avoid adventures with sizing dies. I use an X die to feed all my 7.62x51 gas guns, 'cause there's better things to do than trim cases.

 

[rwsmith]

I've got a case gauge, but...

OK, this is new to me. I thought head space was the distance between the bolt face and the case head when the bolt is fully closed and the case fully seated. How does a case gauge determine that?

The plunk test is easy to do on a pistol. Not so easy on a rifle. I would get a case gauge anyway, but I'm curious as to the above statement.

I have a case gauge but I still like to crank my 30-06 rounds through the action just to make sure. I've had some mysterious cartridges that seem right in obvious dimensions but won't chamber fully. Until I figure that out completely, I'll run them through the action.

The technical definition of "headspace" for bottle-necked rimless cases is the dimension between the bolt face and the datum line on the chamber or cartridge shoulder, whichever is being referenced.

The "datum line" is a position on the shoulder defined by the military or SAAMI drawing as appropriate. One measures this dimension by means of a chamber headspace gauge.

Edited from an article by Walt Kulek.


It seems that an ideal solution would be to get a chamber cast and a custom machined gauge. I'm not sure how much that would cost.

Update. Now I'm really confused. It seems that the Wilson gauge that I've been using only measures LENGTH of the cartridge for trimming. What gauge or technique tells you that your reloaded bottleneck cartridge WILL chamber, at least in a chamber cut to SAAMI specs.

 

[Twoboxer]

. . . Update. Now I'm really confused. It seems that the Wilson gauge that I've been using only measures LENGTH of the cartridge for trimming. What gauge or technique tells you that your reloaded bottleneck cartridge WILL chamber, at least in a chamber cut to SAAMI specs.

I read the description of the Wilson case gauge on the Midway site, and it seems to use the word "cartridge" where it means "case". And I think you did too.

The gauge first can measure overall CASE length to tell you whether it needs trimming. Once trimmed, the case will fall further into the gauge and rest on its shoulder.

The gauge then allows you to measure headspace on a fired or resized cartridge. If the gauge is satisfied, that case will chamber.

Since these cases are not flared before seating a bullet, the case dimensions will be the same as or (if you crimped) smaller than it was before seating.

So the only significant dimension left is the overall CARTRIDGE length. No gauge can tell you whether the cartridge/bullet will jam the lands because your chamber is likely unique. Calipers tell you whether the overall length is within SAAMI specs and should fit in any chamber. It can of course be shorter.

Hope that helps.

 

[MN2944]

My suggestions in bold:

Items I would add to the above discussion regards accuracy. First, consider cases should be fire formed in your rifle then only neck size the case when reloading (check that this does not cause difficult extraction in your rifle).

I'm not a fan of neck sizing. After a few loadings, you need to full length resize anyway or the round will stick. I'd prefer to just FL resize each time, but keep the setback to a minimum. That way, your dimensions are always consistent rather than going back and forth between neck and FL.

Use a factory roll crimp to achieve round uniformity.

I think you'll find that most shooters don't crimp at all on precision rounds for a bolt action. The match style bullets usually don't have a cannelure, so a roll crimp can distort the jacket. If going in a semi-auto, a light taper crimp is all that is needed to prevent bullet movement

 

[growr]

In answer to the gauge question .....the RCBS Case Micrometer does an excellent job of making sure the shoulder is set back properly which is very important in a gas gun like an M1A.

I speak from a very bad experience....Yes, an M1A CAN fire sightly out of battery with quite dramatic results! Is it rare? YES!! Does it happen? YES!!

Randy

Randy

 

[ageingstudent]

OK, this is new to me. I thought head space was the distance between the bolt face and the case head when the bolt is fully closed and the case fully seated. How does a case gauge determine that?

The plunk test is easy to do on a pistol. Not so easy on a rifle. I would get a case gauge anyway, but I'm curious as to the above statement.

If you have a common rifle with a stock chamber your first attempt at making handloads with a standard recipe and full length sizing should produce at least factory like results and a safe shooting cartridge.

If you want to tweak for fine tuned accuracy (and who doesn't?), you can try for this by seating the bullet closer to where the rifling begins, without actually having the bullet touching the rifling. There is more than one way to measure the distance from the bolt face to where the rifling begins. Headspace and cartridge length gages are one very accurate way. Here is the way I do it because I like to go old school:

Finding Maximum Cartridge Length in a Chamber « Western Powders

I like this article it has pictures and is easy to follow. Lots of similar articles and info to help with this out there. Also you are welcome to PM me if you want. This stuff can get confusing.

Is the rifle you are considering loading for a bolt gun?

 

[Rastoff]

This generated far more help than I expected. Thanks to all for the lesson.

Is the rifle you are considering loading for a bolt gun?

Yes indeed, it's a Savage Model 11. I intend to add an AR-10 to the herd, but not for a while.

 

[M1A]

I use Varget, IMR4895, & H4895
If you use different bullets and weights I would suggest a Forster Micro seating die so that you can just dial in the varying seating depths for the correct COL.
I prefer 168gr Hornady A-Max and Sierra Math King (SMK)
CCI BR primers for a bolt gun.

 

[ageingstudent]

This generated far more help than I expected. Thanks to all for the lesson.

Yes indeed, it's a Savage Model 11. I intend to add an AR-10 to the herd, but not for a while.

That's a great place to start with the savage.

 

[Forrest r]

+1 savages are an excellent place to start.

I'd take a good look at the sierra 155g palma bullets.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/2156/308-dia-155-gr-HPBT-PALMA-MatchKing

Those bullets will put the 168g bullets to shame.

Learn how to set your sizing die and you have extremely consistent brass. I set mine up by measuring the shoulder from a fired case. I use nothing more than a piece of steel that is square and has a hole in it that big enough to slip over the neck of the case and rest on the shoulder. Simply run a case up in the full length sizer and measure it the same way you measured the fired case. Move the die up or down until you have 1/1000th difference/shorter sized case compared to the fired case.

Do not use the expander ball that comes with the fl or neck sizing dies. They do nothing but expand/flare the necks of your cases un-evenly. That causes bullets to be loaded crooked/not concentric.

 

[Frank46]

Speaking about IMR4895 being used for reduced loadings. I wrote once to the NRA and basically got back a recipe for a cheap 300 meter load used in the '06. 125 grain sierra flat based bullet, any military case(they were very popular at the time) either rem or ww large rifle primer and 38 to 40 grains of IMR 4895. With a smith corona which had a Lyman 48 rear sight and a Lyman 17XNB front sight it was very easy to shoot the center out of a target benched at 100yds. Lite recoil and great accuracy. I had a sucession of pre'64 model 70 match rifles and the accuracy load for them (30-06) 168 gr sierra Match King, rem cases,CCI large rifle magnum primers and either 54.5 or 55.5 grains IMR 4350. That load has worked in 3 match rifles, one 1949 standard M70 and my Sako 75 in 30-06. The Sako will send a 165 grain ballistic tip at 2800 chrographed feet per second. And why the magnum primer?.The addition of the magnum primer over a standard primer gives better consistency to that load. And well worth it in my opinion. Now I realize this thread was about the 308 cartridge. My 40x single shot will keep all the shots in .75 at 100 yds using the 168 SMK ,41.0 grs IMR 4895 ww large rifle primer. Gotta get some 175 SMK's to try out. Frank