Reloading shotgun ammo revisited

DeplorabusUnum

DeplorabusUnum

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So my wife and I both really enjoy shooting rifles and pistols, but one thing we've never done is shoot trap together. It's mainly because our gun range had to close down their trap range many years ago because a neighboring farmer's fence line was too close on one side. Anyway, as I begin to think about retirement, we both want to shoot a lot more together. We currently shoot benchrest rifle, lever action rifles, revolvers, semi-auto pistols and an AR. When I asked her what her favorite type of shooting is, she said benchrest rifle and trap. Currently we don't shoot any trap together and never have. We'd like to change that, so we are going to invest the time and $ to make that happen.

So the shotguns I currently have are a Winchester 16g pump, a Beretta 12g O/U, and a Beretta 12g semi-auto.

The current barrier to this undertaking is ammo, especially for the 16g. I also think that maybe both 12g shotguns are a bit heavy for my wife to enjoy lots of trap shooting.

So I'm still thinking seriously about starting to reload at least for the 16g, and possibly 12g too. But before taking that leap, we are going to go shoot up the case of 12g #7 1/2 shot loads that we already have, just to make sure that she really does want to shoot shotgun on a regular basis. I'm also thinking about getting a better shotgun for her to shoot.

So I'm open to suggestions for a good all purpose shotgun for my wife to shoot mainly trap, but possibly skeet and eventually sporting clays. 12g, 20g, 28g??? (We will never hunt birds. My wife would never shoot any living creature.)

I'm also open to suggestions as to where to find shot re-loading supplies, what brand you are currently able to find that you like for lead shot, shells and wads.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can impart.
 
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You bring up two issues, first is gauge selection. It brings me straight back to my youth. I started shooting shotgun with a single shot 20 ga. Mostly pheasants, but occasionally a rabbit would run on my path. I saved my money made hoeing beans for ours and neighbors fields. Saved money all summer in 1962 and with some help from my father, I bought my first brand-new shotgun. It was a Winchester Model 12 semi-auto 20 ga. Got it home and dad and I grabbed a box of White flyers and out trusty hand-thrower. My older sister was home and she went along. I was a crack shot with my new pump-gun and when my sister asked to shoot it, I loaded it up and dad showed her how to hold it and he threw her a bird. Well she shot and immediately threw the gun about 10 feet before grabbing her shoulder. Black-n-blue for two weeks. Fortunately, the gun suffered no harm in the freshly disked field. That taught me that not all people are comfortable shooting shotguns. As far as I know, she never shot another shotgun. I am always very conservative when making suggestions for people who ask about what shotgun they should purchase, especially for their wives. My suggestion is that they can start out with a 20 gauge semi-automatic, period. Great gun that should suit all the needs of a woman shooter.

20 gauge is powerful enough to propel an ounce of shot anywhere you aim. They are light weight, and in semi-auto offer the least amount of recoil of any type of shotgun, except 410. There are many brands on the market today and all are fast shooting reliable guns. If, for any reason, your wife feels she needs more, that is the time to move up to a larger gauge.

The ability to reload is very sketchy today. Lead shot is near impossible to find. You need primers, another tough commodity to find, and powder is out of stock way too often. If one finds reloading components for shotguns, buy in bulk, because they may not show up for some time to come. Walmart offers 20 & 12 ga ammo in 4-box lots for $35 and it is available most all the time. 16 ga on the other hand is tough to find in target form.

Personally, I would not start my wife out on trap as it is a tough game to master, plus it helps very little with any other shotgun sport. Skeet, 5 Stand, and Sporting Clays are field sports, much better suited to a beginner. One can go out on a sporting clays course by themselves or their wife and take their time without the worry that the other shooters on your trap squad will be upset with a new shooter. Happens often. Most sporting clays courses today are set up so you pay for 50 birds and an electronic counter or card will take care of how many you shoot you can work one one bird at a time, shooting it multiple times until you understand how to break it. Move along on your own pace until you hit the 50 bird limit. Great learning experience.
 
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I load 12, 20, 28, & 410. Until the last few years 12 and 20 gauges were less expensive to buy factory, that reload. But by reloading you could tailor make you loads. 28 and 410have always been about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of factory.

Now days, where are you going to get the better quality hulls to start loading with?

I was in a LGS last Friday, $65 for a 25 pound bag of shot. that 400 ounces. Primers have gone from $35/1000 Win 209 to $65/1000 French stuff! Presses has gone from MEC600 $39 (1995) to around $150. And the MEC progressives rose even higher and further!

I still load from reserves I've had. If you can find 20 or 28 the costs are outrageous, 410 ammo has not been shipped in 2 or 3 years.

I sold my 16 gauge press without ever loading a single round because the gun stock kept snapping at the wrist!

You had better need ammo badly, or shoot vast quantities to make the upfront costs worthwhile!

Ivan
 
Buy a 12 ga. and reloading equipment. A 12 ga. can be reloaded with 3/4 oz. on up and speeds from about 1000 fps on up. It will be easier to find the reloading components to load a soft shooting shell than it will be to find a factory soft shooting shell. Most of the shells that I see for sale are not any where close to 3/4 oz. at 1000fps so they will have much more recoil. Larry
 
The Beretta 12 ga semi automatic is probably the best choice for your wife from the shotguns you now own. Recoil is less punishing in a semiautomatic shotgun than any other shotgun action: likely an important consideration for your wife.

Light 12 ga trap loads are probably the least expensive to buy from the factory. 12 ga reloading components are probably the most available and least expensive of all gauges, so if you're going to reload, 12ga is the best option.

I shoot a fair amount of 16 ga, primarily in Parker guns. Over the past 15 or 20 years, that's the only gauge I've used on upland game.

I have a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge that I've often used to introduce smaller stature beginners to shotguns, almost always on a trap range. 16 ga works fine on trap, 5 stand, sporting clays and skeet (although a pump action on skeet is an expert's gun because of the gun handling skill necessary to get off 2 shots quickly).

The 16ga isn't the gauge you want for trap competition since you end up competing with 12 ga shooters who can have a bird's advantage in side by side competition.

16 ga ammo is the most expensive shotgun ammo of your shotguns. There isn't a great variety of 16 ga. ammo available in retail outlets. Most of the stuff you'll find in retail outlets is limited to medium and relatively heavy field loads.

You can miss out on the lighter loads that make the 16 a pleasure for new shooters. Lighter 16 ga loads are available from RST. I'd recommend you buy a flat of RST 16 ga with 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot to get started with your 16.

Reloading 16 ga is pricey: 16 ga components are less available and more expensive than 12 or 20 ga for the hulls and wads. Reloading offers a greater range of loads, but it comes from your reloading labor as opposed to a quick trip to Wallyworld.

Your Winchester 16 is very attractive for your purposes (I'm guessing you have a Model 12). The Model 12 has traditionally been a favorite for clay bird shooting because of its wonderful handling. Lots of trap champions have used a Model 12. I wouldn't be surprised if you and your wife shot the Winchester pump better than your Berettas, at least initially.

Take all 3 to the trap range and see which works best for you.
 
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I am a hardcore hobbyist handloader, one of those crazy guys who lives to make his own ammo. But I almost surely will NEVER again load a shotshell.

Components are just absolutely outrageous and unlike loading for pistol and rifle, there is far less "tuning for specific need."

I love the idea of a 20ga and a semiautomatic for the wife, but rolling your own shotshells is definitely a dying art. I would never suggest that anyone who loads shotshells now is crazy, but I might hint that someone is crazy for wanting to just now get started in that racket.
 
Trap shooting is a blast in my opinion! A couple things to keep in mind especially for a new shooter is to not shoot to many rounds when you go to the range. Nothing like a real sore shoulder to take the fun out of it.

While a 20 ga. for the wife would be nice I would start her off with some light 1 oz. loads in a 12 ga. autoloader. I have always liked the Remington 1100 that are pretty easy to find in various barrel lengths for a reasonable amount of money. Much simpler if you both shoot the same gauge.

I have always enjoyed reloading be it a pistol, rifle or shotgun. As stated lead shot has gotten just ridicules. Some gun clubs reclaim their shot and sell it back to the members at a substantial savings. Something you might want to look at? Also some clubs sell what they reclaim and reprocess it so it is virtually like new. As far as a reloader I did thousands with a single stage Pacific and a MEC reloader. I eventually upgraded to a Ponsness/Warren that really sped up the process but is not necessary.

Trap shooting is a great hobby I hope works out for you?
 
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As far as guns go, go to your local club and start talking to shooters. At every club that I've been to, the people are always willing to give you some advice, and let you shoot their guns. I see that you're in the PNW, where are you close to?
 
Ask yourself if there is a trap club near by, that you will drive to, to shoot?
Can you spend the money for range fees and gas ?

Will you use the shotguns for hunting?

A 16 is spendy for reloading, where a 20 Ga. is usually a lot easier to find items and cheaper if you have to by factory ammo.

A 12 Ga can also be down loaded to 7/8 or 3/4 "Powder puff" loads
that have minimum recoil for a shooter.

A 1oz 12 Ga. has around 17 ft/lbs of recoil, that most ladies can shoot
100 rounds and not get beat up, with a good gun fit.

Just ask your wife if she really wants to shoot a shotgun, before going crazy.

Have fun.
 
I shoot 4 gun Skeet, which is competitive Skeet in 410, 28, 20, & 12 gauges. Due to cost I reload everything. For me 12 gauge is currently $ 8.85 per box for 1 ounce loads, 7/8 ounce loads are 8.35 per box. Not a huge savings but it's quality ammunition so compared to premium commercial loads there is a savings. Plus I can build loads like the 7/8 ounce 12 gauge, which may be listed in a catalog but I've never seen it in a store. Savings for 410 are large, currently Winchester AAHS is 20 dollars a box at my club and my cost is $ 6.53. BTW most of my practice is with the 410, it's the least expensive to shoot and does enforce precise shooting. So you can save money by loading your own. In addition you can build low recoil loads at will.

Note, those recommending semi auto shotguns need to look at the weight of these guns when considering them for a woman. A 12 gauge Beretta A400 weighs just as much as Beretta's 686 Over/Under. Note there are lightweight Semi's available but it will take some looking to find one. I would suggest looking at a 20 gauge semi, it will be a lighter gun and still quite effective shooting Trap.
 
Nevada Ed said:
Ask yourself if there is a trap club near by, that you will drive to, to shoot?
Can you spend the money for range fees and gas ?

Will you use the shotguns for hunting?

A 16 is spendy for reloading, where a 20 Ga. is usually a lot easier to find items and cheaper if you have to by factory ammo.

A 12 Ga can also be down loaded to 7/8 or 3/4 "Powder puff" loads
that have minimum recoil for a shooter.

A 1oz 12 Ga. has around 17 ft/lbs of recoil, that most ladies can shoot
100 rounds and not get beat up, with a good gun fit.

Just ask your wife if she really wants to shoot a shotgun, before going crazy.

Have fun.
Click to expand...

No she loves shooting trap. She just hasn't done it since about late 90s. Also no hunting, just clays.
 
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toad67 said:
I've shot there many times. I know that Dave has rental guns, and usually has quite a few new and used ones also. They're not really entry level price wise, but that would be a great place to start. I know they have a lot of classes, so that might be worth looking into.
Click to expand...
Yes, we've both shot there before when it was Mitchell's, and liked it a lot. I think that's what we'll do.
 
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Don't be fooled by the 7/8 or 1 oz load that some makers sell. It may not be a low recoil. The feet per second speed also has an effect on recoil. I have shot some Remington shells that had IIRC 7/8 oz. shot and the fps was 1390. 7/8 oz. at 1000 fps is low recoil but at 1390 fps it will rattle your brain. Larry
 
tops said:
Don't be fooled by the 7/8 or 1 oz load that some makers sell. It may not be a low recoil. The feet per second speed also has an effect on recoil. I have shot some Remington shells that had IIRC 7/8 oz. shot and the fps was 1390. 7/8 oz. at 1000 fps is low recoil but at 1390 fps it will rattle your brain. Larry
Click to expand...

There are light trap loads and there are super fast 1 oz, Dove field, hunting loads.
Pick your poision.
 
If you do get into reloading a 12 Ga. that weights 8 pounds +/- ;

1 1/8 oz at 1200fps ......... 20.8 ft/lbs of recoil
" ............. 1145 ............ 18.1
1 oz ..........1180 ............. 16
" ............. 1150 ............. 15.2
7/8 oz ...... 1200 .............. 13.2
" ............. 1160 ............. 12.4 ( Red Dot 16.5 grs )

Good luck finding a shotgun to test & buy at the trap club.
 
I guess I'm lucky. I've been reloading shotshell since junior high school when I saw a MEC 600 Jr. press for sale and was able to convince my mom that I needed it. I've been loading 12 gauge for decades. Recently I was lucky enough to acquire complete 16, 20 and .410 conversion kits and more components at an excellent price. I've been loading .410 for a few years on a Duomatic press, the operation of which defies both logic and common sense. The .410 hulls have been impossible to find but then the Magtech brass shells came to the rescue. The brass shells don't even need traditional loading equipment to make decent ammo and are right at home in the Savage 24DL combo gun. Wads can be improvised and various sizes of buckshot can be cast. Where there's a will there's a way.
 
Remember that 20 gauge guns are lighter than 12 gauge guns, so felt recoil is basically the same. Next is to get a gun that fits properly.If the wife has to scrunch to see the barrel properly She will never shoot it well. Go to that club and ask for help getting a gun that fits Her properly. She will thank You for it and will most likely out-shoot You.Proper fit is more important than anything else with a trap gun.
 
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