Remington pump rifle rather than an AR or AK

[Smith357]

OK, With all that is going on I'm finally feeling like it's time for a defensive rifle. Now everyone tells me I need an AR or some other EBR type rifle for the task. The thing is these rifle are typically very expensive for a quality one, and with all of them being in calibers I don't load that would require even more money to get set up. It also does not help that 30 years ago I had the M16a1 forced upon me by the USMC and it was the biggest hunk o junk I ever had the displeasure or using. The AR platform left a sour taste in my mouth, I realize after 30 years and a half dozen revisions they finally got it to work, but I don't think I can bring myself to trust one.

Soooo..... I'm looking at an inexpensive alternative rifle that would get the job done in a caliber that I already reload and can still get cases of cheap mil-surp ammo. My warped mind came up with a Remington Pump like the 760 or 7600 in .30-06, these can be had on the used market for $300 or less and there are plenty of aftermarket 10 round magazines for $20 or less.

The Pros
Cheap entry costs
I already have the tools and supplies to load it and a couple hundred rounds loaded.
Much more power and range than a .223 or 7.62x39

The Cons
Parts availability
heavier cartridges and therefore less ammo can be carried and more recoil
10 round magazine capacity.


So I'm a totally crazy?? or is there some merit in this thought?

 

[BaldEagle1313]

If you're crazy then I'm in the same asylum. I've been thinking the exact same thing. Been looking (not real hard, yet) for a 760. Wasn't real thrilled about some of the reviews of the 7600, so I left that off the list.

 

[sigp220.45]

I think your idea has plenty of merit. I don't really count the ten round magazine as a con either.

Have you thought of an M1 Garand? CMP still has them for $495 plus shipping to your front door.

Rifle Sales

 

[crows]

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but where do you get cases of cheap mil-spec. 30.06?

 

[safearm]

Remington did make a 7615 carbine; pump action .223 that used AR-15/M-16 magazines. They are not listed on their website, so they might be out of production.

 

[M29since14]

I have a friend who is big in the handgun business (most of you might recognize his name). You should hear him go on about his Browning BARs. He has a couple of them in .30/06 and at least one in another caliber(s) - I think .270, but it may be a .308. He thinks they are a lot better rifle than the Remington autoloaders. That's one to consider, and sometimes you can find used ones at a fair price.

You might also consider a Mini-30. I have one that is not a bad gun, but magazines are a bit pricey. It could be a pretty mean 100-yard gun, or a bit more, if necessary. Ammunition is certainly cheap enough, but you really have to check it out before you buy. Some of it is VERY poor quality and will have short headspace and/or terrible primers. Best to buy in small quantities to check out the lot, before you buy a large amount.

There is always the '94 Winchester, and similar lever guns - all with plenty of power and reach. Best quality factory ammo will be on sale once or twice a year for about $10/box, in my neck of the woods and the .30/30 is a snap to handload. Very light, flat, and handy. If you need to reach farther, I assume you already have your scoped-sighted hunting rifle.

But you might be happy if you would give yourself a fair chance to re-evaluate the AR15s. You don't have to spend a pile of money to get a good one. If you can live with the .223/5.56 cartridge (and it is not terrible with the modern, heavy-bullet ammunition - 69 to 77 grains), you might eventually take a liking to one. It's never going to hit like a .30/06, but at shorter ranges, it is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Smith357]

I think your idea has plenty of merit. I don't really count the ten round magazine as a con either.

Have you thought of an M1 Garand? CMP still has them for $495 plus shipping to your front door.

Rifle Sales

The M1 Garand is very nice but $200 more expensive than a Remington and a lot heavier, also the Garand requires ammo made with powders that won't bend the op rod. Granted I have plenty of 4895 but there is no telling how some off brand bulk ammo would affect it. Or if I happen to run out of 4895 and only have 4350 or 4064 with 180 grain bullets left over.

Remington did make a 7615 carbine; pump action .223 that used AR-15/M-16 magazines. They are not listed on their website, so they might be out of production.

The issue there is setup of a new caliber and the 7615 being a rather new design is a lot more expensive than an old dinged up 760.

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but where do you get cases of cheap mil-spec. 30.06?

I saw a few cans of mil-surp aught six ammo at the OGCA show this weekend, while a bit more than .223 it was not over the top.

I have a friend who is big in the handgun business (most of you might recognize his name). You should hear him go on about his Browning BARs. He has a couple of them in .30/06 and at least one in another caliber(s) - I think .270, but it may be a .308. He thinks they are a lot better rifle than the Remington autoloaders. That's one to consider, and sometimes you can find used ones at a fair price.

I did consider the BAR MKII but it has a limited capacity magazine that is not really easy to change in a hurry.

You might also consider a Mini-30. I have one that is not a bad gun, but magazines are a bit pricey. It could be a pretty mean 100-yard gun, or a bit more, if necessary. Ammunition is certainly cheap enough, but you really have to check it out before you buy. Some of it is VERY poor quality and will have short headspace and/or terrible primers. Best to buy in small quantities to check out the lot, before you buy a large amount.

The mini 14 and 30 are also on my list but they are a bit more spendy, especially when the magazine cost is factored in.

There is always the '94 Winchester, and similar lever guns - all with plenty of power and reach. Best quality factory ammo will be on sale once or twice a year for about $10/box, in my neck of the woods and the .30/30 is a snap to handload. Very light, flat, and handy. If you need to reach farther, I assume you already have your scoped-sighted hunting rifle.

The 30-30 would be out for me, but I have considered a .357 lever gun. If I can find one on the cheap that would be perfect. But .357 levers are in high demand and cheap they're not.

But you might be happy if you would give yourself a fair chance to re-evaluate the AR15s. You don't have to spend a pile of money to get a good one. If you can live with the .223/5.56 cartridge (and it is not terrible with the modern, heavy-bullet ammunition - 69 to 77 grains), you might eventually take a liking to one. It's never going to hit like a .30/06, but at shorter ranges, it is nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah I know the AR is a fine rifle and it's all in my head, I shot a bushmaster with an Eotech on top at the range just last week and it ran flawlessly, offhand accuracy was minute of dinner plate, it was nice but...

 

[Fir Fer]

I was pondering on this question myself. I have an old Rem 35cal pump, to say it's long in the tooth is an understatement. I was thinking of a Mini-14, any thoughts concerns? Pros and Cons?

 

[cjw3]

The 760 in .30-06 I had in the late sixties and on through the early eighties was accurate. It also had rather nasty recoil which may have been due to the receiver/stock design. An alternative such as .243 would be more than adequate for what you are considering, if you can find one.

Lacking the leverage of a bolt gun, it takes a little practice to learn to "shuck" somewhat more vigorously than your average slide action shotgun. (If using reloads for practice, this is one case where small base dies really are necessary.) Anything less will cause it to hang up just short of closing. When it does this, it is very difficult to give it that last shove to close it; it is quicker to just eject that round and chamber another. That alone would give me pause if I were considering it's use as a defensive rifle.

It would be an unlikely scenario (I would hope), but sporting type rifles are not well suited to high volume of fire should that be necessary. Closer tolerances and light weight parts are fine (even desirable) for a hunting rifle, but I would be skittish about the effects of heat generated by firing a significant number of rounds, binding of the action being the biggest concern.

I know nothing about them, but I see those Saiga .308's now and then; they aren't very expensive, maybe something along those lines?

I know you had your fill with AR's in general and perhaps 5.56 as well, but I have an A2 rifle and a midlength flat top carbine that are monotonously accurate and reliable. The only jam I had in one of them was with S&B brass that had rim diameter or extractor groove dimensions that were not correct. I discarded those, have loaded no more using them and have had no further issues.

If I need a rifle for the purposes we are considering, one of these will be what I reach for. Before I got one, I never thought I would say that for any semi-auto but they are just that good.

 

[Combat]

I have all three, AR's, AK"s and a Remington pump. All 3 will do the job they were designed for. You have to figure out exactly what you need either of them to do and go from there. The AR would be the most accurate, the AK would be the most reliable, but an old pump Rem. is the most "CLASSIC".

 

[cjw3]

I was pondering on this question myself. I have an old Rem 35cal pump, to say it's long in the tooth is an understatement. I was thinking of a Mini-14, any thoughts concerns? Pros and Cons?

I had one of the Mini 14 Ranch rifles when I lived out in a rural area in the '80's.

Pros: Totally reliable, easy to field strip and maintain, handy size and weight. Police trade-ins can sometimes be found for under $500; I know where there are several at a place about an hour's drive from me right now. They can also be accessorized to suit any need, real or imagined.

Cons: Not very accurate (I can't answer for the new ones; they are supposed to be much better). As the barrel (thin) heats up it really throws them around. I think the main culprit is supposed to be the method of attaching the gas block. Tried mounting a scope on it, but the slap and slam of the action repeatedly kept loosening it. I didn't know as much about mounting scopes then as I think I do now, so additional steps to lock everything down may have helped but I really got tired of fooling with it.

From the perspective of accuracy, ergonomics and maintenance, AR's run rings around them so that is how I eventually went.

 

[explorer13421]

I bought a Remington 7615 as an insurance policy against a new "assault weapons" ban. It is the special purpose model, synthetic stock, and rail suitable for a scope. I think it is pretty accurate and dependable. You do need to operate the action in a way that the rifle knows you are in charge, that is, do not hesitate to pump vigorously. Feeding from AR magazines has been flawless.

AR prices have come down since I bought the 7615. I will hold on to it for the aforesaid insurance purpose, but have been thinking about an AR.

 

[max]

Have you thought about an SKS?

 

[Joe Kent]

I agree with your choice of a Remington 760 or whatever the current number is. I have carried one whenever I travel to an "unfriendly" to guns area. For years I have had state of the art rifles and for that matter still do, but a Remington is not an EBR and raises no red flags when checked and will still get the job done when needed. I cannot recommend any "extended" mags and would suggest you stay with factory 4 rd mags. I usually take five extra loaded mags with me in the case. I should also mention that I use a carbine rather than a full rifle.

 

[GatorFarmer]

350-400 dollars will buy you a "good enough" entry level AK. Centerfire ammo doesn't get much cheaper than Russian steel case 7.62x39mm either... Mags are cheap, not AR cheap, but cheap enough.

Anyway, it's just as well the 7615 is out of production. The one I had, the front sight fell off when I took it home. There were many reports of feeding issues, mine seemed okay, but I didn't do much with it.

The Remington autos/pumps can be modified using aftermarket stocks meant for Remington's 20 gauge line of shotguns. But... Even most of the 10 round mags floating around aren't that reliable. There are some options for a reliable ten round or 20 round mag, but all are very expensive. Did Remington start offering ten round mags? Not that it matters much since you can't really do a speedy mag change.

While there are currently flat finish versions of the Remington with synthetic stocks, the majority made over the years had a blue finish prone to rust under adverse conditions.

The autos aren't the easiest to take apart and clean. They're also less reliable than virtually any military design.

The pumps, given their limited capacity and their action, I'm unsure of the advantage over a shotgun at most common ranges. If it is a really bad day and you need extra range, then consider that it might be such a bad day that you might have to worry about the problems inherent in firing a pump action rifle while prone, sometimes from behind cover, or with only hand.

If you need a .30-06, you might also want to consider that under the circumstances you'd be likely to need it, that a flash hider, greater rate of fire, and higher capacity might be useful.

 

[Slowhanddd]

I have three of the Remmy 760's.30-06,270 and a 308.I've had the first two for over 25 yrs.The 308 for about 5 yrs.All three will do MOA with remington corelokts.Can't beat the old pumps for reliability and shooting factory ammo great.I'd buy them all over again.Still looking for one in 243.I've seen them at gun shows this year for 300- 400.Could dang near get all three for the price of a AR.

 

[4506517]

I think you should seriously consider an SKS. Feeds from a 10 round mag, reasonably priced, ultra reliable, ammo is reasonably priced, and there are a ton of different makes to choose from. Granted Chinese are the most prolific, there are also Russian, Yugoslavian, Romanian, Albanian, and the not so oftenly encountered East German. You can get addicted to collecting them.......trust me I know.

The SKS can also be quickly reloaded with stripped clips. Takes a little practice, but I've become quite good with them.

 

[feralmerril]

I have posted on this subject before. I have a lot of rifles. I inherited this 760 in 30-06 when my dad died at 90 in 2003. Dad shot his last nice buck with it at about 86 years old. It sat in my safe untill last year, almost as a after thought I sighted it in. First of all, it didnt need sighting in. It was super accurate with the peep dad put on it. I think it would make a great battle rifle as is. It`s light, accurate, they are cheap to buy, I probley will pick up another magazine or two. I would like to get a extended magazine for it. Does anyone make one? One other thing. It`s not a swat looking type weapon but gives up little to one. Its a innocent looking popular deer type rifle. Wont draw attendtion to you like a AR or AK and others would. That alone could mean something some day.

 

[gtoppcop]

Smith357,

Great minds (or warped ones) must think alike. I thought about the 760/7600-series of pumps. My gunsmith tells me that they are exceedingly accurate rifles...completely the opposite of their 740/7400 semi-auto stablemates.

They too strike me as "zombie insurance". What's not to like:
-Pump Action
-10 round capcity with the aftermarket Brownells mags
-A "Real" caliber
-Near Un-Ban-Able platform

They can use some of the 870/1187 sights/M1913 rails, safety buttons, etc.

The local "watering hole" has two (740 and 7400 in .270 and .30-06, respectively). They are SOLID weapons.

Don't discount the Marlin 1894 rifles in .357/.41/.44 They are also VERY good...even in New Jermany or Kalifornia. PLENTY of power for anything needing to be handled.

Lastly, the old M1 Carbine (NOT AUTO ORDNANCE!!!) deserves some consideration also. The new Cor-Bon .30 carbine makes it into a decent short range defensive weapon.

Just my $.02

 

[lazy]

I really enjoy my AK-47
.30 cal
cheap ammo (chrono at 2225@ 20 feet from chrono)
can reload for it
affordable 30 rnd mags
1 1/4 groups at 25 meters
open style sights allows a shooter to get on target faster than peep