Replacing Motherboard Capacitors?

[cmort666]

I just had the second of two of my ECS A780GM-A mother boards [apparently] fail a couple of days ago.

I don't have the money to replace this one, which was my main desktop, since I'd have to buy MB, processor AND memory.

I see a lot of discussion in technical forums regarding cheap capacitors failing, rendering MBs inoperable. I also see a lot of posts about replacing the failed capacitors.

Has anyone done this, and do you think it's worth the effort?

As I said, I can't afford to replace the hardware. Nor do I want to reinstall Windows and all of my apps from scratch (The data should still be good, and I have backups of important stuff.).

I'm going to be looking at the boards tonight to see if I see any damage. If I could fix these boards by replacing the caps, that would bring not just my Windows 7 back, also another good Linux installation that was running on the the board that failed first in a Linux server.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Comrad]

Hard to say if this is doable, most circuit boards today are multi layer and most hand held soldering irons will destroy the lands un-soldering and re-soldering. You will also need a solder sucker or at least solder wick. You must also be certain of polarity when replacing capacitors, if you reverse them they will explode. If you haven't done it before the odds are against you.
Most times when caps fail the either leak or bulge. If you don't see any visible damage you might want to consider looking elsewhere for the problem.

 

[cmort666]

If you haven't done it before the odds are against you.

I replaced a UART years ago. I've got a suction bulb and solder wick.

 

[Rastoff]

Comrad is right. Motherboards are delicate these days. Plus, do you even know that it's a capacitor that's bad? I fix electronics for a living and even I don't do multilayer boards.

On the up side, it's already broken. It's not like you're going to ruin a working board. So, you have nothing to lose. The worst that can happen is that it still won't work.

 

[cmort666]

Comrad is right. Motherboards are delicate these days. Plus, do you even know that it's a capacitor that's bad? I fix electronics for a living and even I don't do multilayer boards.

I've got two of them in the same condition. I was awake when one died, and smelled burning. I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

I'll be looking at both boards tonight.

On the up side, it's already broken. It's not like you're going to ruin a working board. So, you have nothing to lose. The worst that can happen is that it still won't work.

That's pretty much how I look at it. I'll have less than $10 in parts into both of them. I can't afford to buy a motherboard, processor and memory anyway.

 

[TucsonMTB]

Go for it, sir!

A few months ago, I replaced the power storage capacitor on the motherboard of our Irrigation System Controller. The cap, which stores power to get you through those annoying, short power outages without losing all the programming, was cheap on eBay, came quickly, and went right in nicely.

The RainBird controller has been "right as rain" ever since, pun intended.

A used, replacement controller would have been about $50 eBay, if I could have found one. Saw several that had already sold in that price range during my search, but nothing was available.

 

[Mcwsky09]

I have replaced capacitors on several motherboards, a couple power supplies, and even a couple LCD monitors. Mostly with success, not all of it permanent.
As mentioned if you have leaking or bulging caps they are good candidates and you can often find $10-$20 kits for a given motherboard or LCD on line if you have the soldering skills.
At least if we are talking about desktops.
Notebooks are another matter and the caps are generally surface mouth and much more densely packed so requires a much higher level of skills and equipment.

 

[jjcobra]

On a side note your OS is on the hard drive so all you need is the driver disk for your new MB. You shouldn't lose anything.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I got a dead Dell out in the garage. If you were closer I would give it to you. It's got a bad power supply and I have pulled the harddrive. The madra board and processor are ok, I think.

 

[LVSteve]

Take a look at Badcaps.net - Badcaps Home . Lots of good info there.

 

[Jellybean]

I'm not an electronics expert, or even a novice for that matter, my experience is building a few intermediate to advanced electronics kits.

Here is a tutorial from Ramsey electronics that might help if you're new at this.

And since no one else has mentioned it yet, you might want to try to find out what is frying them before you start replacing them, unless you buy them by the dozen. The soldering section in the above tutorial might give you some clues to look for.

 

[Robotech]

The larger electrolytic capacitors on motherboards and in the power supplies are prone to failure over time, even if you have good quality components to start with.

These capacitors usually use thru-hole leads, which are reasonably easy to remove from the board without damaging the board, but just be sure to use a lower-wattage iron rather than a solder gun, which would apply way too much heat.

These capacitors typically fail either shorted, which is often easy to spot, or "open", in which case finding the bad one can be difficult without removing it from the board and checking it with a capacitance meter. They'll often also fail in groups, so you may want to change out the whole set. (Remember that these usually are "polarized", with a plus and minus side like a battery. DON'T put one in backward! )

The real trick is that when a capacitor fails, it may take out other components as well, or have been taken out by another failed component. In power supply circuits, often there is a MOV/ transient absorber or diodes that failed first. If you have a surge absorbing power strip, it also has these MOVs, usually disc-shaped components. These also only work for so long, and WILL eventually fail with repeated surges. If they fail shorted, you'll know it. If they fail open, the only way you're likely to know is if the surge strip has an alarm circuit that checks for this.

 

[BobC357]

I primarily work on vintage electronics but, I also do laptops and some computer devices. Be aware that a lot is surface mount and, as others have noted, multi-layer. I don't change out parts randomly or in bulk due to the possibility of doing more damage. If you have test gear, you can try and troublshoot the system.

I go through power supplies mostly which is why my C: drive image is not hardware connected and neither are my backups. Anyway, check the power supply under load for proper voltages. Then, the power supply circuitry on the motherboard. After that, most components are usually pretty stable.

Oh, and if you're lucky, you can put your drive into a new box and try and boot. It may ask you to install a bunch of drivers and reverify the software but, frequently, they will boot in a new box once the drivers get loaded.

Good luck.

 

[LVSteve]

Look for capacitors that have become domed on the top when they should be flat.

 

[Rastoff]

Look for capacitors that have become domed on the top when they should be flat.

Yes, this could be an indicator of a bad cap, but only a test will show for sure. Putting an ohmmeter on a cap should show a short increasing to an open, but it takes some experience to really understand what you're looking at. Some multimeters have a capacitance function.

And, the advice to discover what's causing them to go bad is good. Capacitors do age and fail, but it's more than likely due to some problem external to the cap.

 

[venomballistics]

Yes, I've done some of this sort of thing.
Before you even think about it, I recomend that you dig up any unused pci card and practice removing and replacing a few parts.
don't dive into that mobo till you can do it without lifting any traces off the board.
Once the copper traces peel due to taking too long.... your boned

 

[quneur]

My advise is to toss the MB and buy a new one on the auction site for $50. Buy heatsink paste (artic cool, i believe) and reuse the memory and processor. You are going to spend hours looking for the failed component and then search for a replacement.

You may get lucky if you search at a computer repair shop. They will often have used boards for a discount from customers who upgrade their system. Scrounge around. You'll be surprised at what you'll find at Goodwill, university auctions or friends.

 

[DeadAye]

Yes, this could be an indicator of a bad cap, but only a test will show for sure. Putting an ohmmeter on a cap should show a short increasing to an open, but it takes some experience to really understand what you're looking at. Some multimeters have a capacitance function.

And, the advice to discover what's causing them to go bad is good. Capacitors do age and fail, but it's more than likely due to some problem external to the cap.

ALWAYS TRUE --- IN *THE OLD DAYS*
A company in Taiwan manufactured a bunch (a tremendous bunch) of caps and sold them for much less than *real* caps go for.
Manufactures jumped on these things and they're in most electronics made from 2000 to 2010 (!).

I just re-capped my dead monitor - I think the set was $12 on eBay.
Here's an article explaining The Capacitor Plague

 

[cmort666]

On a side note your OS is on the hard drive so all you need is the driver disk for your new MB. You shouldn't lose anything.

I've seen where they can do some ugly things when trying to recognize new motherboards, but it's pretty much hit or miss. Sometimes it's relatively painless, other times it's a nightmare.

Hopefully, I'll get the capacitors swapped out and it won't be an issue.

 

[cmort666]

Take a look at Badcaps.net - Badcaps Home . Lots of good info there.

They were practically the first place I found. There is indeed a wealth of information there. Somebody even had a similar problem with the same model board.

I think it's sad that there's actually a need for so specific a message board.

 

[cmort666]

And since no one else has mentioned it yet, you might want to try to find out what is frying them before you start replacing them, unless you buy them by the dozen. The soldering section in the above tutorial might give you some clues to look for.

I gather from badcaps that this is a fairly common problem because some manufacturers, ECS in particular, are using garbage caps these days. It kind of reminds me of my Norinco M1911: absolutely first rate barrel, frame and slide, and utter **** hammer, trigger, sear, and leaf spring.

 

[cmort666]

The larger electrolytic capacitors on motherboards and in the power supplies are prone to failure over time, even if you have good quality components to start with.

The current consensus seems to be that ECS uses substandard caps, with ASUS starting to follow their lead. When I started using ECS they were pretty good quality.

These capacitors usually use thru-hole leads, which are reasonably easy to remove from the board without damaging the board, but just be sure to use a lower-wattage iron rather than a solder gun, which would apply way too much heat.

I've got a soldering pencil that I last used to make a wired shutter release for my DSLR. I have done desoldering, it's just been a long time.

These capacitors typically fail either shorted, which is often easy to spot, or "open", in which case finding the bad one can be difficult without removing it from the board and checking it with a capacitance meter. They'll often also fail in groups, so you may want to change out the whole set. (Remember that these usually are "polarized", with a plus and minus side like a battery. DON'T put one in backward! )

From what I've seen, the general consensus is to at least replace all the similar ones around it as well.

I plan to take multiple photographs of the board, top and bottom, before doing anything.

 

[cmort666]

Look for capacitors that have become domed on the top when they should be flat.

I checked last night, and found one on the identical board which failed last year. I had to check twice, but eventually found a very obviously bad one off to one side of the board. I'm going to replace it and those around it.

I'm going to check the one which just failed, today.

If things work out, I'll have not only my desktop back, but a better personal Linux server than the one I'm using now (ECS K7SVA).

 

[cmort666]

My advise is to toss the MB and buy a new one on the auction site for $50. Buy heatsink paste (artic cool, i believe) and reuse the memory and processor. You are going to spend hours looking for the failed component and then search for a replacement.

The problem is that EVERY one of the working boards on ebay is in China, and listed as refurbished. Besides, those boards are discontinued. I'm stuck with whatever is sent to me... which may just blow eventually anyway.

I'll risk $8-$12 bucks for a reversing ring or an A/D converter board, but I'm leary of risking $50-$60. I think that if I replace EVERY cap on the board it won't cost me $20.

 

[cmort666]

I checked the board of the machine that failed this week, but didn't see any bulged caps. I haven't tried looking for leaks at the bottoms yet. The one that died last year looks like a good candidate for repair. In the meantime, my mother will give me the money I need to replace the MB, CPU, and memory.

I'm getting by on my mother's old laptop with Ubuntu on it, but I need to have a working Win 7 machine. I needed to send out a couple of resumes this week and had to recover one from an already sent email.

I have nothing to lose by trying to replace the caps on the one that had the bad cap. I've got a working Linux installation on the drive that came out of it when I used it to replace the Win 7 machine. I'm going to take another look at the one that died this week to see if it's really capacitors or something else. I'm betting on the former.

 

[Jellybean]

I gather from badcaps that this is a fairly common problem because some manufacturers, ECS in particular, are using garbage caps these days. It kind of reminds me of my Norinco M1911: absolutely first rate barrel, frame and slide, and utter **** hammer, trigger, sear, and leaf spring.

I'm not trying to shift the thread, so I hope no one goes postal...

I am a little more familiar with the Norincos. I built a few 1911s, before everyone and their brothers got into the act, and found a slightly used Norinco in a gun shop. It had gone through two owners before the store took it in on trade, they knew it jammed but couldn't figure out why. I didn't really care, I only wanted the frame and maybe a couple of other parts if I needed them. As I was tinkering with it, I found the problem, the slide stop was out of spec. and was rubbing against the magazine.

 

[cmort666]

I got the board with no apparent bad caps working again.

I had previously taken the memory out and reseated it, without fixing the problem.

I took it into the office of a friend with whom I've built systems previously, and started over from scratch. We pulled the board and closely scrutinized it for damage without finding any.

We pulled the CPU and reseated it, without fixing the problem.

Finally, we pulled the memory and reseated it, without fixing the problem. I suggested that my friend pull the modules one at a time. He pulled one and it still wouldn't turn on. Then he swapped them and put them both in and it started.

I bought some more thermal paste on the way home. I re-pasted the CPU and reconnected everything and now it works.

In the meantime, my mother sent me some money for a new CPU, MB, and memory. I'm going to retire this machine as my primary work machine and transition it to a client machine for my Server 2008 and Server 2012 MCITP studies.

By the time I'm done, I'll be able to study for the RHCE, 2008 MCITP and 2012 MCITP (or whatever they call it now).

I still plan to replace the caps on the other A780GM-A board, as I can use it as a better personal Linux server than the current server with the K7SVA. That's what my current A780GM-A was before the other one had a bad cap and had to be replaced.

 

[TucsonMTB]

I got the board with no apparent bad caps working again. . . .

Excellent. Congratulations!

Thanks for sharing the good news.