Rethinking some carry decisions

[Protected One]

Recently I read a story about a couple returning home in their SUV with their two young children. When the husband got out he was confronted by a neighbors pit bull that had escaped the yard. As the pit bull charged, the husband got off a round from his ccw, striking the dog, which then ran around the man...and jumped into the open door of the vehicle! Fortunatelly, the wife was also carrying, and seeing her husband draw, she did as well. Good thing too, because as the pit jumped in she raised her J frame and fired, with the dogs mouth around the barrel. The dog fell in the drivers side floor well and lay there...breathing heavy. After a few seconds he then jumped back up, at which time the wife emptied her revolver, puting the dog down for good.

Locally we have had two cases (that I know of) over the last few months, where people have been attacked by four or more pit bulls. One, the brutal mauling death of a 4 yr old boy by four pits. You may have seen this story on the news. The other, a jogger who was attacked by 12 pit bulls, losing an eye, his left arm below the elbow, and both legs below the knee.
Studies show that there are approximatelly 250,000 pitbulls in the local area, and growing.

This got me to thinking about how I would fare against even ONE pit bull with either of my current edc's - a Model 60 and/or Bodyguard 380. And if there were MORE than one...well. Most likelly there would be no time for reloading before I was bitten or mauled. I'm giving serious thought to resuming carry of my glock 23 and a spare mag.

 

[oldguyshoot]

Getting my popcorn ready.

On a serious note - I've started carrying mixed ammo in my autos and revolvers - DPX (for thugs) and Liberty Civil Defense (for thugs with body armor) every other round. I've been thinking about throwing in a few hard cast Buffalo Bore (for thugs with fur):

5-shot 357 mag revolvers:

DPX
Liberty
DPX
Liberty
Buffalo Bore

And in my autos something similar:

DPX
Liberty
DPX
Liberty
Buffalo Bore
Buffalo Bore
<REPEAT>

^This way if faced with an attacking Pit/Rot/T-Rex I'll just empty the mag into them.

 

[Ozark Marine]

250,000 Pitbulls and growing? Man that's unreal. I'd carry my 12 gauge Mossberg pump shotgun and Glock 21 as the sidearm with as many mags as I could put in my pockets. What area of Michigan are all these attacks happening?

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

My girlfriend's two (2) pitbulls attack me all the time. Last weekend I sat down on her couch and these two (2) monsters jumped up on my lap and tried to lick me to death. My face was sticky until I wiped it off with a wet paper towel. I saw my life flash before my eyes.

 

[okiegtrider]

And here we go!

 

[Protected One]

250,000 Pitbulls and growing? Man that's unreal. I'd carry my 12 gauge Mossberg pump shotgun and Glock 21 as the sidearm with as many mags as I could put in my pockets. What area of Michigan are all these attacks happening?

The child was killed in Detroit and the jogger was mauled in Sterling Heights ( I think).

 

[Arik]

 

[Kanewpadle]

I've been chased by pit bulls more times than I can remember.

Situational awareness, quick thinking, and quick feet saved the day.

You could carry a hi cap 10mm and there would still be no guarantee that you would stop a dog.

We make concessions with whatever we choose to carry. Don't overthink things. Life is complicated enough.

 

[jimmib]

I walk three miles every day and besides my Shield 40 I carry a nightstick that puts out 800,000 volts...I have been attacked by several dogs over the years and not one of them has come close to me...as soon as I push the button and that loud crackling noise with the blue arc on the end goes off they stop dead in their tracks....when I push the button again they take off for home....one of the dogs was a pit bull and I got the same results...if they decide to come closer and I have to actually prod them chances are good it will kill them....best dog defense weapon I have ever bought....you can look it up on the web.....Street Wise Night Stick 800,000

 

[dwever]

As someone who was attacked by a pit bull with nowhere to run in Woodville, Florida years ago and well before I carried a firearm, it was only because of someone's German Shepherd that leapt from the back of a station wagon and out an open front window that I didn't have a likely horrific experience. The stunning thing about that dog fight was the pit wouldn't stop fighting although it was losing badly. We called the Leon County Sheriff's Office. Shout out to my hero 'Yukon' the German Shepherd.

Anyway, Michigan cities that have banned pit bulls include Ecorse, Highland Park, Grosse Pointe Woods and Grosse Pointe Park in Wayne County and Waterford and Sylvan Lake in Oakland County, according to DogsBite.org, a nonprofit group that advocates nationally for pit bull bans. An additional 12 cities in Michigan have passed restrictions, ranging from banning pit bulls declared dangerous, to mandatory sterilization and tougher registration and monitoring of the dogs.

Nationally, about 700 cities have banned or restricted pit bull ownership. So far, 19 states have enacted such prohibitions since the 1980s. Now, there is a tendency not to ban specific breeds, but to have laws regarding vicious dogs in general. Some disagree and see a need to ban the breed: "They want us to ignore the heritage of the pit bull breed," Lynn said, noting decades of them being bred for fighting. "Pit bulls show up disproportionately in fatalities because of the style of their bites — hold and shake — and once they've started an attack, it's usually impossible to stop. Often it takes intervention of a firearm to stop it.

"Normal dogs bite and release. Pit bulls don't do that. They hold on and won't let go."

 

[Duckford]

What was said in Dune about power is the same for pitbulls, power does not corrupt it attracts the corrupt, and pitbulls are not bad dogs, but they have a nasty tendency to attract bad owners. There are good men who can handle power, and there are many good men with pitbulls, but its the fact that people who want dangerous dogs and abusive them to those ends tend to pick that breed overwhelmingly. They are chosen by bad masters for a bad purpose for their physical abilities, and it ends up with terrible consequences.

Out in the country, dogs are always a concern, because people will simply drop them off, and there are no animal control officers, just you. One time someone dropped off a dog close to the property, and when I went out one morning, it growled at me, but after chasing it through the yard with the 12 gauge it turned friendly and we adopted it out. Our neighbor is a psychopath who has dogs so mean he can't safely handle them and has to keep them caged up permanently (I don't know how good a guard dog is if its caged up to protect YOU) that could get loose and wander the long way over, and there have been a roving pack of domestic dogs in the somewhat local area that have been chasing deer, and in a pack could be unpredictable, means its an ever present consideration.

I suppose I am in a much better situation, because open carry of long guns out in the country, on your own property, is fine, and I always carry a 12 or 10 bore shotgun, or a hunting or battle rifle with me on my jaunts through the country, so I'm the hunter. But I still carry a large frame handgun for every day carry for universality. My 1911, or my 6 inch barrel M27, are not only capable defensive weapons against men, but also serve as more than enough for any animal in my region that could attack. I'm never undergunned by caliber, and that's not an accident.

As stated previously, its hard to change up one's entire carry style, weapon, caliber, and load for one specific threat. Yet, depending on your neck of the woods and life, perhaps its not. Maybe you live somewhere where a dog attack is far more likely, bad neighbors, neighborhood, ect. Better to understand and prepare for the threat than not, and another consideration for what is adequate.

 

[BC38]

Studies show that there are approximatelly 250,000 pitbulls in the local area, and growing.

Hold on; a QUARTER OF A MILLION pit bulls? Just in your local area? Are you sure you didn't accidentally put one (or two) extra zeros in there somewhere?

A few minutes worth of research puts the estimated total number of pit bulls in the US at less than 6 million. So for there to be 250,000 in your area you would have 1 of every 24 put bulls in the whole country in your local area. That seems a little far fetched.

Nevertheless, if you have a lot of them in your area, that would definitely be something to be concerned about.

 

[GatorFarmer]

I believe the quarter million figure if the area includes Detroit. Tough town.

When I lived in the ghetto, my favorite primary carry was an alloy framed Commander sized Kimber 1911 in .45 ACP. I imagine it would suffice for most things.

However what I actually used on animals was pepper spray. I do not know if Michigan still has the 2 percent law and size limits on OC, but when I lived there "bear spray" was sold.

 

[regalsc]

As someone who was attacked by a pit bull with nowhere to run in Woodville, Florida years ago and well before I carried a firearm, it was only because of someone's German Shepherd that leapt from the back of a station wagon and out an open front window that I didn't have a likely horrific experience. The stunning thing about that dog fight was the pit wouldn't stop fighting although it was losing badly. We called the Leon County Sheriff's Office. Shout out to my hero 'Yukon' the German Shepherd.

Anyway, Michigan cities that have banned pit bulls include Ecorse, Highland Park, Grosse Pointe Woods and Grosse Pointe Park in Wayne County and Waterford and Sylvan Lake in Oakland County, according to DogsBite.org, a nonprofit group that advocates nationally for pit bull bans. An additional 12 cities in Michigan have passed restrictions, ranging from banning pit bulls declared dangerous, to mandatory sterilization and tougher registration and monitoring of the dogs.

Nationally, about 700 cities have banned or restricted pit bull ownership. So far, 19 states have enacted such prohibitions since the 1980s. Now, there is a tendency not to ban specific breeds, but to have laws regarding vicious dogs in general. Some disagree and see a need to ban the breed: "They want us to ignore the heritage of the pit bull breed," Lynn said, noting decades of them being bred for fighting. "Pit bulls show up disproportionately in fatalities because of the style of their bites — hold and shake — and once they've started an attack, it's usually impossible to stop. Often it takes intervention of a firearm to stop it.

"Normal dogs bite and release. Pit bulls don't do that. They hold on and won't let go."

I live in a suburb of Detroit & there aren't dogs running loose here but Detroit does have a problem as well as the highest population of pitbulls & also no ban on them. Anyway the ban that certain cities have is most likely going to be "banned" itself or not enforceable by the Senate under discrimination against breed. I know there are good pitbull pets/owners out there its just every time on the news "another pitbull attack".

 

[robertrwalsh]

Last year in my neck of the woods they had a serious problem over about two weeks with a modest size pack of feral pit bulls. Animal control and then S O managed to hunt them down and mostly captured them. I have had to personally shoot two pits bulls, both were solo attacks, one on my own property. The day of my second shooting a woman was mauled to death by a pit bull in a nearby city.

 

[Protected One]

As someone who was attacked by a pit bull with nowhere to run in Woodville, Florida years ago and well before I carried a firearm, it was only because of someone's German Shepherd that leapt from the back of a station wagon and out an open front window that I didn't have a likely horrific experience. The stunning thing about that dog fight was the pit wouldn't stop fighting although it was losing badly. We called the Leon County Sheriff's Office. Shout out to my hero 'Yukon' the German Shepherd.

Anyway, Michigan cities that have banned pit bulls include Ecorse, Highland Park, Grosse Pointe Woods and Grosse Pointe Park in Wayne County and Waterford and Sylvan Lake in Oakland County, according to DogsBite.org, a nonprofit group that advocates nationally for pit bull bans. An additional 12 cities in Michigan have passed restrictions, ranging from banning pit bulls declared dangerous, to mandatory sterilization and tougher registration and monitoring of the dogs.

Nationally, about 700 cities have banned or restricted pit bull ownership. So far, 19 states have enacted such prohibitions since the 1980s. Now, there is a tendency not to ban specific breeds, but to have laws regarding started an attack, it's usually impossible to stop. Often it takes intervention of a firearm to stop it.

"Normal dogs bite and release. Pit bulls don't do that. They hold on and won't let go."

In addition to the cities that have outright bans, many homeowners associations have bans on pit bull in their community. I have a co-worker who lives in South Lyon, and they are NOT allowed there.

I believe the quarter million figure if the area includes Detroit. Tough town.

When I lived in the ghetto, my favorite primary carry was an alloy framed Commander sized Kimber 1911 in .45 ACP. I imagine it would suffice for most things.

However what I actually used on animals was pepper spray. I do not know if Michigan still has the 2 percent law and size limits on OC, but when I lived there "bear spray" was sold.

The study was done in Detroit, and yes, the figure is acurate - 250,000 (or 1 pit bull for every 3 residents!). The owner of the 12 pits that attacked the jogger was a 61 year old man...living with his mother for support! Common sense SHOULD tell someone that if they are living with mom they can't afford 12 dogs. While there are some responsible owners I believe the majority are not so, and that is the problem.

My point in posting this thread was not to help popcorn sales, but rather to express my thought that while I feel comfortable with my Chiefs Special or Bodyguard for defense against two-legged predators, I may not have enough capacity for the growing number of dog packs if attacked.

 

[AlHunt]

"Normal dogs bite and release. Pit bulls don't do that. They hold on and won't let go."

This could not possibly be a bigger lie. I've seen all sorts of dogs bite and hold. How else could they play tug of war.

Enough with the breed-bashing.

 

[jimmyj]

Jimmy's experience with pit bulls (old story told before)
On duty outside my patrol unit was attacked by three (3) pit bulls.
Protection: Sig-Sauer P-229 .40 loaded with Speer 180 grain JHP.
Double taps to chest area with no effect except sound of gunfire turned the pit bulls.
Lesson learn: 12 gauge with slugs.

 

[dwever]

This could not possibly be a bigger lie. I've seen all sorts of dogs bite and hold. How else could they play tug of war. Enough with the breed-bashing.

The lady who was quoted saying that was herself mauled by a pit bull in California, and she is the founder of dogsbite.org.

To compare a game of tug-of-war to breed specific attack behavior is a bit of a leap. So I would suggest looking at the readily available numbers instead.

Just this May, dogs.petbreeds.com posted a well-known recent study, notable for it's methodology and it's scale covering 32 years. Petbreeds re-published this report as they, "concluded that this report gave a sufficiently thoughtful and unbiased summary of dog attacks in the United States." And they included the reports specific methodology.

"Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada (1982-2014)," compiled by ANIMALS 24-7 is a 32 year study from readily available records that focused on the number of attacks doing bodily harm in the past 32 years, which includes fatalities, maimings (loss of limb or disfigurement) and other severe injuries that required hospital treatment. The study is easily Googled.

No.1 In Attacks doing bodily harm: 3,397, and deaths: 295 is the pit bull. The astounding thing about that compilation study is that not only did pit bulls account for the majority of deaths and injuries over all other breeds by a wide margin, the margin is so shockingly wide that pit bulls accounted for deaths and injuries over the next nine breeds in the top-ten list COMBINED, and even then by a great margin.

For example, even though considered vastly outnumbered by German Shepherds who are the second most popular dog breed in America, for deaths and attacks causing bodily injury, the Pit Bull has been involved in 2,000% more deaths and 3,000% more attacks causing bodily injury than the GS.

If those public records and their compilation are accurate, it's hard to see how it is breed bashing.

 

[Arik]

The lady who was quoted saying that was herself mauled by a pit bull in California, and she is the founder of dogsbite.org.

To compare a game of tug-of-war to breed specific attack behavior is a bit of a leap. So I would suggest looking at the readily available numbers instead.

Just this May dogs.petbreeds.com posted a well-known recent study, notable for it's methodology and it's scale covering 32 years. Petbreeds re-published this report as they, "concluded that this report gave a sufficiently thoughtful and unbiased summary of dog attacks in the United States." And they included the reports specific methodology.

"Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada (1982-2014)," compiled by ANIMALS 24-7 is a 32 year study from readily available records that focused on the number of attacks doing bodily harm in the past 32 years, which includes fatalities, maimings (loss of limb or disfigurement) and other severe injuries that required hospital treatment. The study is easily Googled.

No.1 In Attacks doing bodily harm: 3,397, and deaths: 295 is the pit bull. The astounding thing about that compilation study is that not only did pit bulls account for the majority of deaths and injuries over all other breeds by a wide margin, the margin is so shockingly wide that pit bulls accounted for deaths and injuries over the next nine breeds in the top-ten list COMBINED.

For example, even though vastly outnumbered by German Shepherds who are the second most popular dog breed in America, for deaths and attacks causing bodily injury, the Pit Bull has been involved in 2,000% more deaths and 3,000% more attacks causing bodily injury than the GS.

If those public records and their compilation are accurate, it's hard to see how it is breed bashing.

The only problem with that article is they don't actually know what a "Pit bull" is. The study goes off of what people say and lots of people assume it was a Pitt bull. Most people know the general look but that's like saying you saw a black semi auto handgun there for its a Glock.

I've posted pictures of it before but look up Dogo Argentino. Despite having a completely different (stereotypical) personality from a Pitt bull and being related to a Great Dane it still LOOKS like a Pitt bull.